Browse Forums Landscape & Garden Design Re: TURF LAYING SUMMARY and what has become many things turf 304Aug 28, 2010 6:43 pm Hi Fu, I've used the riversafe wetting agent on the lawn last weekend and the lawn seemed to have improved heaps. I read somewhere that spreading sugar onto the lawn is good for the soil. Does it work like molasses? How about raw sugar or brown sugar? It has some essence of molasses. Probably not as good as molasses. I am just thinking that sugar would be easier to spread onto the soil. Re: TURF LAYING SUMMARY and what has become many things turf 305Aug 28, 2010 7:48 pm No probs Nott, I did notice that baag were selling Viro tube trays of a native weeping grass/turf that is probably the seed you and the website mention in vegetive cells. It would establish quicker combined with seed so less weeds. Re: TURF LAYING SUMMARY and what has become many things turf 306Aug 28, 2010 8:20 pm no_idea Hi Fu, I've used the riversafe wetting agent on the lawn last weekend and the lawn seemed to have improved heaps. I read somewhere that spreading sugar onto the lawn is good for the soil. Does it work like molasses? How about raw sugar or brown sugar? It has some essence of molasses. Probably not as good as molasses. I am just thinking that sugar would be easier to spread onto the soil. Yes it is good. It is a derivative method from using molasses. In commercial applications, raw sugar can be cheaper to apply in the massive quantities. However being a more processed and refined product it won't have quite the same benefits. For domestic use, using sugar is going to be very expensive and may attract ants if it isn't watered in well. Queens Gardens here in East Perth is one place that went from using molasses to using raw sugar. This is done for environmental reasons and lessens the impact of the wonderful turf surfaces on the nearby Swan River which has been assaulted by fertilisers. Pretty sure they continue doing this today I have been disappointed in the performance River Safe wetting agent, however what the carrier is for that wetting agent is very good for your soil It uses Zeolite That stuff is, like Bentonite clay in Munns wetta lawn and garden, of far greater benefit mixed through the soils. We can't always do that though So it will take many years of applications before these products work deeper into the soil and do their wonderful stuff It will also take the application of organic composted top dresses each year or two to keep a lawn healthy and sustainable. So although the wetting agent isn't that flash it is still very worth while using for other reasons Graham Ross endorses River Safe products for an excellent reason and that is because of their commitment to providing environmentally friendly alternatives when you are shopping at Garden Centres. Nothing makes lawns Greener than water I would suggest the use of a wetting agent over a bag of fertiliser any day to make a lawn greener faster. There are some great wetting agents and some that leave a little to be desired. The hard part is some of the expensive ones on the market aren't always good performers. I use and recommend Saturaid by Debco. The carrier for the wetting agent is coco peat which is also good for your soil It offers the best of what is commonly available to domestic gardeners and also the best value for money as far as what it covers. It is huge @ 400-600 m2. I often hear people say liquids are better than granules but it isn't true. There are great ones of both types If you do good organic soil prep, mix in Bentonite clay and spongolite and zeolite, it will not need much in the way of wetting agents compared with poor and cheap turf selection and soil prep. Re: TURF LAYING SUMMARY and what has become many things turf 307Aug 31, 2010 8:03 am Hi, great site btw. We're looking to lay turf shortly, have begun preparations just need a little advice on turf selection please. We have a young, exuberant, borderline stupid labrador and 2 young kids. We live in Pakenham (Sth East Melb) Any help appreciated Re: TURF LAYING SUMMARY and what has become many things turf 308Aug 31, 2010 9:08 am That is going to be a very tough one. I think you may find some of the new soft leaf Kikes will be the best option for you but no matter what, it will have a tough time keeping up with the lab. Once the woofa mellos in a year or two, it will be fine. Re: TURF LAYING SUMMARY and what has become many things turf 309Aug 31, 2010 9:39 am Fu Manchu That is going to be a very tough one. I think you may find some of the new soft leaf Kikes will be the best option for you but no matter what, it will have a tough time keeping up with the lab. Once the woofa mellos in a year or two, it will be fine. Know of any dog sedatives? Re: TURF LAYING SUMMARY and what has become many things turf 310Aug 31, 2010 10:13 am ...only a few "Tiger" ones Re: TURF LAYING SUMMARY and what has become many things turf 311Aug 31, 2010 8:39 pm Tornado_ALIVE Hi Fu, We are about to take hand over of our house and am looking to prep the soil and lay turf. We are based in Western Melbourne (Clay soil) and have an area of 300 sqm to cover. Most of this will be covered with turf, whist selected areas with crushed rock. Currently, we have to fill the land up to 160mm near the house, less as we move out to the fence line (not fenced as yet). We also have an 85kg dog which may create some challenges however we will have the ability to turf in two stages as we plan to separate the yard (back and side) with a fence. We have done a little investigating and have come up with the following. Sir Walter Buffalo from Lilydale Instant Lawns http://www.lilydaleinstantlawn.com.au Lawn mix from Supreme Organic Soils http://www.supremeorganicsoils.com/comp ... /Itemid,1/ So our plan is to.......... Now (late July / early August) - Dump 40 cubic meters of Lawn Mix (20 on the side yard and 20 in the back.) - When the property is fenced, spread the Lawn mix over the property, up to 160mm deep along the slab and less closer to the fence. - Lay down some Gypsum, Zeolite, spongolite, olsens bio - Spray Powerfeed - Rotary Hoe in these materials (to 200mm, is this enough. Deepest Hoe at Kennards) - Compact with a small plate compactor In September - Lay turf - Compact again with a small plate compactor - Soak Lawn - Seasol, Powerfeed and molasses every week end for the next month at least, then every two weeks, then once a month. Am I on the right track. Anything I have missed or should exclude. Any other tips you may have. BTW, Great job on the Turf Laying thread. Cheers Stephen We have nearly spread out all the soil in the back part of the yard. Has taken more than we anticipated (50 cubic meters for the back only) as we are trying to build up the back yard. Will be about 200mm deep. Will soon go to work spreading Gypsum, Zeolite and Spongolite, then rotory hoeing in. How much Gypsum, Zeolite and Spongolite should we be looking at per square meter? Re: TURF LAYING SUMMARY and what has become many things turf 312Aug 31, 2010 10:15 pm As much as possible, but like I post over and over, Gypsum isn't going to be your friend for at least 3 or 4 years. What will break clay far better in both the long and short term is powerfeed. 10ltrs of power feed has the equivalent effect of a tonne of Gypsum. No harm in using the gypsum though. Don't layer your soils. They must be turned over and through what you have. If you do 200mm then the roots will grow to 200mm and use a stack of water in the heat and the turf will be disease prone. Do it to 300mm or more and you will get a win. A few folks will use a dingo or kanga with a ripper to make short work of mixing it through. I would be dumping in 10 bags of zeolite and spongolite provided they are 20kg bags. I can't say that a lawn mix is what I would be using. Very convenient though. I would be focusing on certified organic soils. I never use lawn mixes. What I am about is teaching a whole new way to most of how to do things. Use a lawn mix and you will be reliant on fertilisers and large amounts of water. In short you get a far less sustainable lawn. Sand is important for you guys though. Re: TURF LAYING SUMMARY and what has become many things turf 313Aug 31, 2010 10:22 pm 200mm will be about as high as I will be able to go without going over the slab height but plan on rotory hoeing in though. What is the difference between lawn mix and certified organic soil. Looks like the mix we have has a lot of organic matter through it. Taking into account we have already thrown down about 200mm of lawn mix only, what do you recomend we do to ensure we give our turf the best possible platform (soil) to grow. Re: TURF LAYING SUMMARY and what has become many things turf 314Aug 31, 2010 10:48 pm It is hard to make a call on soil I have not seen The first thing I do with a soil is straight in with the hand to feel and then smell it ....sad really isn't it I need to make time to get some pics of the sorts of soils we use. The whole thing might need some pictures drawn of soil structure. I am very busy just now but will try to dig something up from my vault of Horticultural diagrams and photos. In the end, do what you can with what is available. I do stress that depending on the soils structure and pH then the way the lawn grows over years to come even with my methods maybe compromised. I have a heap of homework to do Re: TURF LAYING SUMMARY and what has become many things turf 315Sep 01, 2010 6:49 pm A pic of the Lawn Mix we used and a pic of the back yard. Appreciate your time in responding Fu. We keep you busy around here lol http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j91/Tornado_ALIVE/b.jpg http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j91/Tornado_ALIVE/a.jpg Re: TURF LAYING SUMMARY and what has become many things turf 316Sep 02, 2010 2:35 am Well it isn't what I would use but it is the best you could get so good job with what you have done so far. Did it smell funky? It would want to smell kind of pleasantly mouldy, like a sweet sort of smell.? Does that make sense? Re: TURF LAYING SUMMARY and what has become many things turf 317Sep 03, 2010 1:27 pm Fu man, Why do the turf farms tell us vicco's to top dress our new sod with sand yet no where else in oz seems to do it? I do understand the principal behind it, it just seems a bit of over kill. Cheers, Beatrix Re: TURF LAYING SUMMARY and what has become many things turf 318Sep 03, 2010 3:49 pm Because sometimes the turf is laid badly and also because sometimes the turf has soil washed from the roots or not much around the roots after cutting at the turf farm. In the end it is to bodge things up a bit. Top dressing with an organic compost would be a far better option but one that many east coast turf people and the industry silverfoxes are unwilling to accept. Re: TURF LAYING SUMMARY and what has become many things turf 319Sep 03, 2010 4:01 pm Hmmmm? I have had a think on this question. It is a very good one. Hopefully I don't crap on too much in explaining it all. I may not address everything I want but I have a bit on the go just now so am doing some juggling/ multi-tasking The following is based on domestic turf management, not professional commercial turf management. Very different things. I base this on what we are learning here in WA and the extreme conditions we face here compared to else where in the world, let alone the rest of Australia. What we are learning here about growing in what is acknowledged as the worst soil on the planet is changing how we garden in hostile conditions. We are experiencing a forced transition in landscaping and gardening. I am just one of the people getting that info to you guys Victoria "The Garden State" is dead, now there is hardly a drop available (Not so much this year) and as our populations grow immensely there is less and less water available to each person. Perth is the second wettest Capital city in Australia after Darwin (On average) Not this year. Supplementary summer rain fall on the west coast from storms is few and very far between unlike the east coast. Our soils do not hold moisture. Perth is the second windiest capital city in the world. Our soils are so deep and free draining with exposure to such a high evap rate in the metro areas we can not go without irrigation. Our water management is some of the best in Australia but the methods it is done are hotly debated with many wanting to see far superior irrigation standards put in place for gardens. This is because hand watering is far less efficient than applying water through good irrigation. Our industries have probably more in common with the Middle east and West Coast US than we do with the East Coast. That is arguable though. The weakness we have is in people having cowboy landscapers delivering low standards, Shops that sell substandard irrigation and some lawn mowing contractors ignorant or untrained in what cheap sprinklers do and what the long term effects are for their businesses by using cheap fertilisers to get a few more mows out of the clients. All for the sake of price and ignorance. We have nothing to start from with our sands, so to get it right we have a heap of work to do. The days of water as much as we want with what ever sprinklers we want- Gone. The days of using macro fertilisers and urea and also sulphate of ammonia -Gone. The days of laying turf on yellow sand or sandy layers with little thought as to soil prep other than some DPM- Gone. Now when we apply better methods here to your better East Coast soils, the results are astonishing. However awareness outside of WA of this sort of thing is rare. The silver foxes of our industries who have done little to update education or methods, either for the sake of the short term dollar or because they don't want to learn new ways. They are training and writing about outdated unsustainable methods. I will endeavour to do a few diagrams as to what layering soils will do to root growth. Many are recommended sand (for drainage) instead of organic soils to do lawns in the east. Even sandy loamy top dresses for lawns. Outdated. Perth has the single most intensive use of fertiliser in the country. We consume 33% of the entire fertiliser supply of Australia in the Perth area alone! This is because sands don't hold nutrients. Incredible nutrient leaching occurs and most are unaware that to combat nutrient leaching we don't increase the nutrients. The Swan and canning rivers are very sick. Some experts say in some parts they are dead but that is debatable. Either way they are not in a good way. All the fertiliser that isn't used by our lawns and gardens ends up in the waterways and oceans and that IS having a direct effect on the environment, our water supplies and ultimately our hip pockets again when the costs of combating the problems comes back in the form of higher rates and taxes. So when you guys want a layer of sandy soil over heavy clays you get a root zone of that thickness of sandy soil only. This means increased evaporation in summer from that layer and then further pressure on water supplies when you desperately apply large heavy volumes of water to revive the turf and further leach nutrients away. Nothing is done to address the clay. gypsum won't do anything for years and the long term it's effects are minimal or comparative with organic acids such as fulvic, amino and humic which act far quicker. So by top dressing lawns with sandy soils some things happen. You increase the heat of the surface layer in summer. Yes you temporarily repair imperfections but those imperfections happened for a reason and it sure wasn't because it needs top dressing. Swept under the mat. Soon enough the same problem arises again in the same place. Your lawn can end up 3ft high! When we top dress with organic materials (soft certified sweet smelling composts) the lawns microbes have a renewed nutrient source. It replenishes the soil the lawn is growing in. A healthy soil will mean a healthy plant and your lawn is a plant. If you have poor sick soil, no amount of fertiliser, fungicide, pesticides are going to fix it. Lawn beetle, what a crock! It is the soil that is the problem, not the beetles and not the lawn. Granted a very rare few cases may be lawn beetle but even then, improving the soil will make the lawn strong enough to handle it. When we treat them, we do the equivalent of a nuclear bomb being detonated on the soils microbial population, further increasing pest problems, water use, and fertiliser dependency which just snow balls from there. Feed the soil and never feed the plant. Feed it organic composts and it all just happens I'll post this rant in a new thread later. Some light turf reading. (I don't agree with all of it but one thing is for sure, it is very good advice regardless of my thoughts and opinions ) http://www.agric.wa.gov.au/PC_92845.html?s=747819707 African Black Beetle http://www.agric.wa.gov.au/objtwr/impor ... df#page=31 Re: TURF LAYING SUMMARY and what has become many things turf 320Sep 03, 2010 8:13 pm Thanks mate, i won't bother doing it this time round. While we are talking irrigation, I am aiming for a low/zero irrigation so I don't want to roll out full retic for very little use. Is there any hose mounted sprinklers that are efficent for the occasional water? I'm about to put down some Merbau. Is it necessary to oil underneath the boards before laying? 0 2244 Hey There. No problems re jumping in. My original question was "should I have waterproofed" the concrete slab before putting batons down. We have been told we should… 7 4551 Depends what you're current inclusions are, but we're not including wardrobes and will just use second hand ones until we can save later on to get them built. Also have a… 3 11836 |