Browse Forums Landscape & Garden Design 1 May 13, 2009 8:49 am Hi all, I am currently getting paving quotes and have got a couple of differing opinions on what is best (or ok) to do. Our chosen paver is a 495x495 square concrete one. There is 63 sqm of paving to be done, about half in the courtyard area and the other half in paths. We wanted to lay them on crushed rock with paving sand. One paver guy doesn't have a problem with this, and thinks it's even preferable in some ways, as if there is movement you won't get cracks in grout lines. Another guy will only lay them on a cement (slurry cement?? can't remember what he said but not a full concrete slab anyway...) base with grout in between the pavers. This is a much more $$$$ option, though not sure exactly how much more yet... I spoke to the paver manufacturer, who said that while the cement option is definitely preferable, it is not compulsory. So I am wondering what the disadvantages of doing it on crushed rock are? The manufacturer said it was to prevent water seeping in between the paver and pooling under the paver... but what is so bad about a bit of water pooling there for while, they are concrete after all and wouldn't it eventually get absorbed by the soil underneath anyway? Love to hear anyone's thoughts thank you... "Your emotions are the slaves to your thoughts, and you are the slave to your emotions." — Elizabeth Gilbert Living in our new house. Currently scaping the land. Re: Laying pavers on crushed rock vs cement base 2May 13, 2009 1:06 pm Hi donuts, I am going thru the same thing for my paving too. So far, my understanding is that paving on sand or roadbase is generally fine as long as they are compacted properly. However, they are still loose soil and therefore possible movement and this can lead to uneven surface. Concrete base will not have this problem but is more $$$. For drainage, water flows down. Uneven surface can lead to pooling. One landscaper I have spoken to suggested to use roadbase, but also use concrete/mud (not sure the exact term) under each paver as he lays. So, this doesn't need as much concrete but take more time to lay. It will cost less too. I have yet to find out how much less. Either way, there is no need to have grout in between pavers. I think this is just personal preference. Building Clarendon Brighton - Done and moved in Sept 2009 Re: Laying pavers on crushed rock vs cement base 3May 13, 2009 2:32 pm thanks for that eho I just had another guy come to quote, he will do either for me but prefers the cement base. He said that weeds will grow through if you have crushed rock with no grout. Will wait till we get all 3 quotes before making a decision. But the guy with the crushed rock is soooo cheap.... at the moment I am thinking that it might be worth saving a bit of money if the disadvantages are not so many.... "Your emotions are the slaves to your thoughts, and you are the slave to your emotions." — Elizabeth Gilbert Living in our new house. Currently scaping the land. Re: Laying pavers on crushed rock vs cement base 4May 13, 2009 8:24 pm Hi donuts, is your paving area similar to my paths, with a 100mm gap between the pavers, or are your pavers going to be continuous? You probably already know how I laid my pavers, but for the benefit of others, here's a quick run down. All of my pavers are on a bed of compacted crushed rock. Crushed rock is also known as road base as far as I know. You have to put something between the crushed rock and the pavers to stabilise them and to compensate for any unevenness in the base. We were advised to put a dob of mortar under each paver to stop them wobbling about when you walk on them but I didn't bother, mainly because I was worried the mortar would set before I got the paver at the right height and level. I spread a layer of leftover brickie's sand over the rock at the required level, plonked them down, maintaining the gap with a length of 4x2, and jumped on them. If any wobbled or went to the wrong level, I compensated by adding or removing sand in the appropriate place. I then spread more sand in between them leaving an exposed height of about 25-30mm, and wet it all down. This compacts and sets the sand a bit. The pebbles were then simply swept into the gaps later on. None of my 200+ pavers wobble. Any weeds that grow between the pavers (mainly grass that has grown from carelessly spread seed) are easily pulled because they only tend to grow in the sand under the pebbles. Admittedly the gaps in between my pavers mean that it is not super-duper critical that they are millimetere perfect as far as height difference between them goes. A cement base would ensure that they are, and may be better for a continuously paved area, but it may be very expensive by comparison. Geoff - Decophile. Re: Laying pavers on crushed rock vs cement base 5May 13, 2009 8:29 pm I guess if the crushed rock is packed down firmly enough with sand on the top it should be fine. Life's too short too drink bad wine Re: Laying pavers on crushed rock vs cement base 6May 13, 2009 8:31 pm hi Eager, yes I remember how yours are done, and we might do a similar thing down the blind side of the house. But these ones will be continuous/butted up against each other with no gaps (unless we opt for the grouting in between). We are getting someone to come and do the laying so I figure they can worry about the evenness and all that Do you think the weeds will be harder to pull out if there are no gaps between the pavers? I am thinking they might be.... "Your emotions are the slaves to your thoughts, and you are the slave to your emotions." — Elizabeth Gilbert Living in our new house. Currently scaping the land. Re: Laying pavers on crushed rock vs cement base 7May 13, 2009 8:34 pm donuts Do you think the weeds will be harder to pull out if there are no gaps between the pavers? I am thinking they might be.... Roundup is your friend.... Geoff - Decophile. Re: Laying pavers on crushed rock vs cement base 8May 13, 2009 8:36 pm Eager donuts Do you think the weeds will be harder to pull out if there are no gaps between the pavers? I am thinking they might be.... Roundup is your friend.... and cheaper than 63 sqm of cement base & the cost of getting grout in between I'm sure "Your emotions are the slaves to your thoughts, and you are the slave to your emotions." — Elizabeth Gilbert Living in our new house. Currently scaping the land. Re: Laying pavers on crushed rock vs cement base 9May 13, 2009 8:44 pm donuts Eager donuts Do you think the weeds will be harder to pull out if there are no gaps between the pavers? I am thinking they might be.... Roundup is your friend.... and cheaper than 63 sqm of cement base & the cost of getting grout in between I'm sure Boiling water (on the weeds) is even cheaper. Life's too short too drink bad wine Re: Laying pavers on crushed rock vs cement base 10May 13, 2009 9:07 pm oh good thanks HH ... and more friendly on the environment! crushed rock and paving sand and kindness on our hip pocket, here we come looks like! "Your emotions are the slaves to your thoughts, and you are the slave to your emotions." — Elizabeth Gilbert Living in our new house. Currently scaping the land. Re: Laying pavers on crushed rock vs cement base 11May 13, 2009 9:41 pm It's all about longevity. One guy you mentioned said that if the ground moves the grout lines will crack,so you can lay them on sand. Flexible paving (on sand) does allow for movement of pavers, but it also means exactly that- movement. Over time you will get the odd lip or sunken paver and weeds between the pavers. The only way to overcome is to eliminate the movement altogether, excavate to solid soil, lay at least an 80mm reinforced concrete base and lay your pavers on mortar with grout inbetween. Expansion joints every 4m filled with suitable coloured silicon will ensure there is no buckle of pavers due to expansion. It's more work and more money, but you end up with a much more long lasting surface. If you must use crushed rock, try to get cement stabilised (some garden yards blend it or get from Boral) or compact your base and hose in raw cement dust into the rock and allow to set. Dont use a hard grout with pavers on sand, the grout will only crack due to movement. Use a gap sand like Pakelok or the like which allows movement while sealing joints. Re: Laying pavers on crushed rock vs cement base 12May 14, 2009 10:22 pm thank you very much for your reply Planned Lscape, much appreciated I have e-mailed your suggestions to my paver guy and hope he will take them on board and not think I am trying to tell him how to do his job "Your emotions are the slaves to your thoughts, and you are the slave to your emotions." — Elizabeth Gilbert Living in our new house. Currently scaping the land. Hi all, I have been looking at land in South Australia, that is on a slope however most of the core excavation is complete, with a flat area to place a house. The agent… 0 1415 Hi, Currently building, we are on a sloping block so we have from floor level to the roof in axon cladding. Below floor level to the ground I want to put brick facings /… 0 4494 DIY, Home Maintenance & Repair All my inside walls are Fibre Cement & House has Steel frames... Tricky when one wants to hang pictures or do Wainscoating Paneling up the hallway. Those little nail… 0 3161 |