Browse Forums Landscape & Garden Design 1 Jan 08, 2011 10:01 pm I recently finished some retaining walls in treated pine (ironwood from Bunnings) sleepers and to finish off the walls I put a 50x200 cap on top. The sleepers have all warped quite a bit but far worse than that the pine capping has warped to the point where its actually ripped out the 120mm screws I use and twisted at 90°. I've never seen anything like it - they will have to be removed and replaced. I've noticed a few retaining walls that are in the area where people have used a smoother material that does not appear to warp at all. Does anyone know what this is? Is it heat treated or hard wood? Also where can I get it. P.S. The rest of the walls are staying put so I'm not interested in the alternatives such as concrete. Thanks. Treated pine sleepers - alternative wood that doesn't warp 3Jan 09, 2011 10:00 am We have just used a heap of the same sleepers from Bunnings and every one of them has warped. The last house, we used redgum and they didn't warp at all. I'm peeved but we will find a way around it. We are going to be painting them. Just sucks we were tightarses! Re: Treated pine sleepers - alternative wood that doesn't wa 4Jan 09, 2011 11:52 am Thanks for the replies folks. That stuff they sell at Bunnings is pretty useless - it warps so badly that it can't really be used for it's intended purpose. Wish I new about the redgum before I started. I wonder how different the redgum looks as I'm hoping to just replace some of it or just the top capping - will it look odd? Re: Treated pine sleepers - alternative wood that doesn't wa 5Jan 09, 2011 8:08 pm Around three months ago I built a 25 m long retaining wall out of Redgum sleepers and I havent had any major issues so far. The sleepers have shrunk a little but not a real lot. They do leak a bit after they are freshly installed which I found out when they leaked onto my driveway which was a bit of a pain to clean. In my area , which is a new estate, there a lot of retaining walls and I have noticed that there isnt a lot of people using Redgum sleepers for retaining walls, I think roughly 80% of what i have seen has been made out of treated pine. So I am a little suprised with the issues your having, especially when you mention that you recently installed them. If your not going to replace the whole wall then I dont think you really have any choice but to try and find a better supplier of treated pine because it wouldnt really look the best to have redgum abd treated pine used on the same wall. Re: Treated pine sleepers - alternative wood that doesn't wa 6Jan 09, 2011 8:19 pm Mozzie, I remember someone (DeeMaree maybe??) mentioning that there was different grades of treated pine and some were not suitable for significant retaining. On the blocks near me, there are a heap of retaining walls (around the same age), and I've noticed significant warping on some walls, yet others seems very stable and it does look like the timber is very different in quality. But none of them are redgum. I leave you to fend for yourself, figure things out yourself. Terrence Malick Re: Treated pine sleepers - alternative wood that doesn't wa 7Jan 09, 2011 8:30 pm I agree with Blackwater, I'd go to another supplier and get them from there. Re: Treated pine sleepers - alternative wood that doesn't wa 8Jan 09, 2011 9:20 pm Hi. Try tracking down some old railway sleepers. They are good because they are usually cheap (I know of a place near Gatton QLD where they are $9each) and they already treated with Creosote. But be careful Creosote is black and stains everything it touches. Simon Re: Treated pine sleepers - alternative wood that doesn't wa 9Jan 10, 2011 9:37 am We found it difficult to find reasonably priced recycled railway sleepers...the ones we did were >$25 each. Re: Treated pine sleepers - alternative wood that doesn't wa 10Jan 10, 2011 10:20 am If you are using 3.0m sleepers, to save on posts, then they will warp from here to infity and beyond. Your best bet is to user shorter sleepers where possible, and if thats not possible, make sure you secure them tightly with coach bolts. 2 bolts per end. use Washers. Re: Treated pine sleepers - alternative wood that doesn't wa 11Jan 10, 2011 4:57 pm As weird as this might sound I would think trying to get in contact with whatever company does the maintenance on the railway stations might be a good idea, seeing if they would be willing to sell railway sleepers to you directly might save you a decent amount. Re: Treated pine sleepers - alternative wood that doesn't wa 12Jan 10, 2011 8:13 pm Thanks for the suggestions. Using railway sleepers is not possible as they would not match the rest of the retaining walls (there is 45m worth). I can't space the posts closer either as it's a bit late for that (and yes I did space them at 3m figuring that there are 3m lengths available so it made sense to space them that way ). Heres a picture just to help explain taken before the twisting: Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ It's the 50mm sections on top that have twisted the worst - these have actually twisted the 75mm sections they are screwed to but a few twisted to the point where they ripped the screws right out and there is about 90° of twist from end to end - it looks terrible. I think my only option is to try what some have suggested and source sleepers elsewhere that maybe don't look so green. The stairs are the same material yet they haven't twisted at all. It's obviously due to the way they are bolted that determines how much they can twist. I thought M5X130mm csk screws would hold them in place. I used these as they are flush and obviously don't want to use coach bolts on the decorative bits. I'm wondering if maybe I can order some more and actually bolt them in a jig until they dry out and then screw them down afterwards - maybe that way if they are secured firmly until they are dry I can prevent them twisted once they are installed. It's annoying because I've seen this done on other walls using treated pine and there was not twisting or cupping at all yet all that was used were nails. Anyway starting again is not an option so I can only try fixing it with what I have so that it looks acceptable to prospective buyers. Thanks all. Re: Treated pine sleepers - alternative wood that doesn't wa 14Jan 10, 2011 8:50 pm I think he was suggesting that you might have been best if you purchased 2.4 or 2.7 long sleepers which might have prevented it warping so much. So is it just the capping that is warping? Cause if so maybe your best to just remove them and leave it as is. Re: Treated pine sleepers - alternative wood that doesn't wa 15Jan 10, 2011 9:38 pm I have actually heard elswhere that its best not to space the posts more than 2.4m apart but that was after I'd already put them in. The capping doesn't seem to matter how long or short it is because some of the shorter pieces have twisted badly too. I could just remove them as you suggest but it doesn't look so great as the sleepers aren't necesarily end to end which I figured didn't matter as they are covered. But in the end I agree MrsG that it's the plants that you want to see and with the right ones they will grow over the sleepers anyway. Thats why I'm only going to fix the ones that are particularly bad that even plants won't disguise. It's all a learning experience with this stuff but the problem is you only know everything once you've finished. Re: Treated pine sleepers - alternative wood that doesn't wa 16Jan 11, 2011 9:32 am I'm getting an engineered retaining wall of Gal steel posts and treated pine sleepers. The engineer specified them @1.2mt spacings to avoid warping. Simple matter of the longer they are the more they will warp. You could try putting an extra post in the center of each sleeper to help hold them back. You may be able to push them back if yo ucan hire a dingo or something like that. Make sure the posts go at least 1mt in the ground so they can take the pressure.. You could try using a bigger anchor instead of screws to help keep the top pieces in place. Also bolt them down at more regular interval (ie not just one screw at each end, but one bolt/anchor every 300mm) Re: Treated pine sleepers - alternative wood that doesn't wa 17May 16, 2014 2:54 pm Unless the wall is only one or two sleepers high ( and it's still not recommended then ! ), the upright posts should not be any wider than 1.2 metres apart otherwise as the timber dries out, the sleepers will bow and bend like bananas ! Just because the timber was outdoors originally as a tree doesn't mean they're indestructible ! Once the protective layer of bark has been remembered and the timber is left in it's raw state, it dries out therefore shrinking and warping. Look at skin. Same thing, you don't moisturise and sit out in a hot paddock 20 hours a day and you'd look like a prune in no time !!! Oil people .......... oil Maintenance will prolong your timber's life for years to come. Re: Treated pine sleepers - alternative wood that doesn't wa 18May 16, 2014 3:09 pm The other thing to remember also with the treated timber that both Bu*#ings and Mas*ers hardwares' sell is IT'S CHEAP !!! These 2 companies go to suppliers and basically tell the supplier how much they need to sell the finished product for and how much margin / mark up they need and then source their product from there. You'll notice the sleepers these 2 outlets sell have long needle marks along the long edges - that's how they get the treatment into the timber. They stab needles in the side and inject the treatment solution. This leads to patches off non treated timber therefore leaving moisture to soak into the timber excessively and then as that moisture dries back out quickly, this rapid wetting / drying process cause the timber to warp and twist. They have to be properly treated in a vacuum type treatment, something that costs a little more, like 50 cents a sleeper but they will outlast the cheap crap probably 5 times longer. And "Ironwood" is only a brand of treated pine, it's not a species of hardwood. Ironwood sleepers are still only radiata pine, one of the softest timbers around. Don't be fooled folks - it's all a marketing ploy. The two mentioned hardwares' source the cheapest crap possible and then put mass mark ups on them. I have a friend that works in the timber industry and some of the stories that could be told.................. the company where he works actually use to supply to one of the large hardware chains and in the end they stopped because the hardware was wanting them to make the sleepers cheaper and cheaper and to cut corners for cost reasons and the supplier then couldn't warrant the cheap crap ( as a manufacturer they have to warrant the product, not the retail outlet / hardware ) that the hardware wanted to buy from them at the cheaper prices so they told the hardware where to go ! Anyway, remember people you must maintain your timber. Oil, more oil, then some oil, and then even some more oil !!! Keep the moisture in the timber and it will shrink less, therefore warp less. Good luck In the mean time, stop making your shopping decisions based purely on price. Remember that the cheapest option is not always the best !!! Re: Treated pine sleepers - alternative wood that doesn't wa 19May 16, 2014 5:28 pm Okay, so which 'oil' do you use for these treated pine sleepers ? I've just done a few retaining walls from the 'green box' place, so you've got me thinking that I need to look after these timbers. Owner Building at Jimboomba Woods in Logan City Qld. Blog : http://bandlnewhomebuild.blogspot.com H1 thread : viewtopic.php?f=38&t=68283 . Re: Treated pine sleepers - alternative wood that doesn't wa 20May 28, 2015 12:39 am Thought I would post to this very old thread. It caught my eye on a Google search and I see no one mentioned the oil for sleepers. The idea is to slow down the woods moisture loss as much as possible. Paint is often suggested but it has to be on both sides. Creosote is the go really. One of the best products that hasn't been equalled by modern chemicals. Unfortunately the lizard lovers stuffed that up. I once tried to climb some intellectual trees to find out what is so wrong with it. The best answer offered was that it smelled so awful. Further searching of chemical companies revealed that well used engine oil held some of the properties that made Creosote so good. This is not intended for bathing, but as wood preservative. So my oil mix. 1/3 good thick heavy truck type well used engine oil. Black as. 1/3 turps, out of wood, back into wood. A great carrier. 1/3 Diesel also a fair wood preservative with good soaking qualities. Do what you like but I like to spray it on. No, it won't over spray, its too thick. But the problem is getting a sprayer to go the distance. Vicon is the go, if you can still get them. Or just use a $10 3-5 litr. pump up garden throw out sprayer. The rubbers will swell up by this time tomorrow. Depending on the size of the job it's better than a brush. It's best to have the wood all cut, angled, drilled and ready to assemble as the sprayed timber takes a few days to dry off. Still a b*gger to handle. Rubber gloves prove handy. BUT it will last and you will be happy with the results. The black will blond off in the sun after a time and the timber seems not to warp much. Very easy to touch up later. I'm now of the old school, probably from a time before there was a school and I've yet to see any negative aspect to this treatment. I was silly enough to be caught out by some new fangled kiddy safe (what ever that means) timber. It needed to be replaced after a couple of years. I carry a piece in the van to show would be dreamers the beauty of a preservative that allows the 2" sleeper to rot up to 1/3 its depth in such a short time. Might cheaper to changer your idea of what makes a home, have you considered building a porch? 2 52675 DIY, Home Maintenance & Repair Are you going to have the frame exposed or are you cladding it with something. 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