Battened Ceiling

Hey fellow DIY's, firstly what a great, resourceful site!!!! Im sure there has been many DIY started and resolved (fixed) via these forums haha.....

So basically Im doing some research and want input for now from others. Im looking at Battening up two ceilings. There not big rooms, both 3.7x3.7 (kitchen) and 3x3 (bedroom). Its an old 1964 style house, with asbestos walls and horsehair ceiling.

So ive managed to see two versions of battened ceilings. One with wood, the other a metal channel. Whats the pos and cons of both? Weight, flexability, workability etc. Also is it hard to get it all perfectly straight, so once the plasterboard is up, it wont look wavey!!!! How so i go about measuring it up straight, correct depth, and spacing it where need be.

Thanks in advance,
Luke

Hi Luke,

Go with the furring channel, the metal batten. Its cheap easy to use and easy to pack flat as you screw it up rather than nail.

Do you plan on removing the existing ceiling? It's not essential you do but it just makes locating ceiling joists easier to fix the battens.

If you place a straight edge (one at least 1800 long so you can span 4 joists) on your ceiling and find the lowest point, this may be just 1 joist that sit a bit lower than the rest.

It's not essential to get the ceiling perfectly level, you just need to make sure you dont have huge differences from 1 batten to the next. If you have 1 joist that sits lower you can use a chisel to hack however much you need out. Or you can use some packers if the joist is sitting up.

Your battens need to be no further than 600 apart, so with the 3700 start your first one about 50-80 in and then work 600c from there. Finish with your last one 50-80 off the other wall and this leaves you 2 rows of screws that get covered by the cornice, assuming you use 90mm or wider cornice.

Oh and if you use needle point plaster screws to fix it, a firm push will get you through so you donet need to predrill anything.

Hello Luke. You can grt different direct fix clips for furring channels, see here:

http://www.rondo.com.au/Portals/0/Guides/KLguide_web_secured.pdf

There are also some videos on the site that give you tips on installing ceilings, levelling them & stuff.

WOW, thanks guys very helpful and very detailed. On the ceiling side of it: no im not going to remove it prior. To find the ceiling joists i have seen on youtube, a video of a bloke using a neodymium magnet to find the screws/nails in the joists, you then with a texta put a dot where it is, continue to do the roof then once all done you know where every joist is.

That link look like a great idea, but due to the fact im not showing the joists i dont think it will work aswell?!?! I was thinking of using metal channels to screw up, but now i think of it the channels would wanna be skinny to fit the joist?!

You run them in the opposite direction across the room, then the plasterboard opposite again

Thanks for the help again guys. Can I ask a few more inquisitive questions. Been at work and spoken to a bloke whos done a celing renno was interested to hear your thoughs on how he done it.

Firstly his celing is the same as mine. Old horsehair with strips of dow (small thin strips of wood with rounded edges) running inbetween the sheets, almost as joiners and also quad corners on the ceiling. What he did is just glue the gyprock opposite way the original gyprock runs, then nailed it to the joists. No batterns needed.

Will this work? What about any bows, or waves in the original ceiling? Would or does this effect the new gyprock your installing? I like this idea as it will be easier to install lighting but most importantly ill have eliminated a 50mm+ gap for vermin and insects to find a home in.

So to conclude, I guess how is this way done to eliminate any bow? Maybe there isnt any once its up and nailed/screwed on??

Food for thought,
Luke

I think you have answered your own question. It wont eliminate any waves in the ceiling hence the furring channel. Adhesive might not hold against the old ceiling paint, neither will cornice cement adhere to painted walls when you come to do the cornices. Use screws and not nails to fix the ceiling.

Vermin and insects wont be any bigger problem than you currently have. Unless you intend hanging a heavy chandelier you will find most lighting will hang from gyprock with the appropriate fixings.

It seems you are a novice so I suggest starting on ceilings, flushing and cornices is not the easiest place to start, especially as should you stuff it up you possibly wont get a tradie to fix it or it will cost you far more than subbying it out in the beginning.

Thanks Uncle Arfur, yeah im a novice. Not a tradie but this is why im researching and talking to people. Ill get there, not going to shy away from trying thats for sure. Seem funny tho, more you talk to people more you get different ideas in your head. IE like using wooden batterns, or using metal channels!?! pros n cons or each. Then like my last post, do i glue n screw????

All a learning curve....

IF your ceilings are flat there is nothing to stop you screwing the new gyprock sheets up through the old ceiling, once you have located the ceiling joists, as is done in many make-overs. If you cant locate them, then use furring channel. The only way to tell if the ceiling is flat is with a straight edge and visual inspection.

BUT before you go any further get yourself a booklet that was (and I hope still is) put out free by Boral, called 'Plasterboard Installation Manual'. Its about 50 pages and will answer all your questions and with pictures.

The problem I can see with fixing straight through the old ceiling is that modern plasterboard is designed to be fixed with a combination of manual fixings (screws) and adhesive, you need both in a system to work correctly
If you fix directly over the old sheets then you can only glue to these and I doubt whether the glue will adhere correctly.
Even if it does hold then you will have added extra weight too a ceiling that is held up predominantly by plaster strapping over the joists on the back of the old plasterglass ceiling.
These straps often fail. If it is just the weight of the original ceiling then you can re-strap but if you add the extra weight of a new ceiling the first thing you may know about it is when the ceiling falls on your head.

I'm not trying to be alarmist, and you may get away with it but for a very small amount of extra effort you should install furring channels as has been outlined above to make sure you can fix the new sheets in a correct way.

Sometimes listening to DIY'ers at work can be the worst thing to do.

The experienced voices that have commented above have outlined the correct way to tackle this job.

All the best.

chippy I don't think anyone was advocating fixing straight on top of the original sheets. Furring channel was sugested in all cases unless I missed a post.

Apart from one post showing a suspended ceiling system, myself and Uncle Arfur are the others who have posted and both suggest furring channel.

Just not sure why the DIY'er coment was needed

Mgilla, read HendosBoats post about 6 up from here, you'll see why I said what I did.

I wasn't mentioning your post in a negative light, in fact yours and UncleAfurs were the experienced voices I mentioned.

The DIY'er was at the OP's work.

Just letting them know the pitfalls of this method.

Yes Chippy I mentioned screwing through the old ceiling, and no offence taken

Naturally one would have to locate the ceiling joists and use longer screws, as we did when coming across old peeling crappy bathroom ceilings where tenants were too lazy to clean the exhaust fan, so the moisture eventually stuffed the ceiling paint, beyond repair.

G'day, my first post and just thought I'd buy into this one. First I'd be going with the furring channel, though I wouldn't have called it that because until I saw it, and googled it. If I was covering a ceiling I would be up in the roof if possible poking holes through the existing ceiling to identify where the joists were. Is that not possible in this case?

My question is: why keep the old ceiling? It doesn't serve any purpose. cheerios to all

@leighton. I've pulled 2 horse hair ceilings down. The first had 80 years of simpson desert duststorms above it. The second 80+ years of possum & rat dung. I don't know which was worse. never EVER again.

oh and go the furring channels, a good laser level, needle points and decent but lightweight cordless (ie 18v de-walt).

Regards

RiH