Help with kitchen and pantry layout

First_Timer_Ray · Feb 07, 2017 7:28 am

I have attached the latest plan for our kitchen but I need to decide what to put where before we go to selections and sign our final contracts.
In our last house we had a decent sized kitchen with L shape island bench and walk in pantry with one side open shelving, the other side was benchtop with under and overhead cupboards but no built in appliances or sink. The 900mm upright cooker was in the centre of the rear kitchen bench with a microwave space next to it (and pot drawer below). I think the location of the microwave next to the stove worked well as you could transfer hot stuff out on to the stovetop.
This time around I decided it would be handy to have an extra sink in the pantry where you could prep food or use as a bit of a wet bar. Also, after talking to my sister, she recommended if possible to include an extra oven and cooktop (600mm) as well for when you are entertaining and need extra space or need 2 different temperatures or don't want to heat up the big oven. I think this would work ok with the space but decided that the stove in the pantry should be induction so it is like a benchtop when not in use and less risk of fire in an enclosed space. I like the idea of the extra usability and versatility but not sure if I need it (I've only ever had one stove but now that I've had a 900mm one I wouldn't go back to just a 600mm).
Another option could be to not bother with appliances in the pantry (just the sink) and add a oven tower to the kitchen bench - perhaps next to the door to the pantry, but this then takes away bench space, and from living in our current rental I know how valuable bench space is. I also like clean lines and would prefer a plain straight rear bench.
I also toyed with the idea of moving the sink to the rear kitchen bench but I think an island without it may look too bare. In any case I think I will be choosing sinks without draining boards (like pictured) and opt for ones that have accessories to fit over the top, so it also doesn't eat into the usable bench space when not in use.

Any ideas welcome.

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Craigasaurus · Feb 07, 2017 10:36 am

I would ditch the oven and cooktop in the pantry and add two under bench ovens and the biggest induction cooktop you can get.
It would get super hot and humid in the pantry which is where you want to store food that should be cool and dry.

algernon · Feb 07, 2017 11:25 am

Craigasaurus

I would ditch the oven and cooktop in the pantry and add two under bench ovens and the biggest induction cooktop you can get.
It would get super hot and humid in the pantry which is where you want to store food that should be cool and dry.

Agreed - we rejected a butler's pantry for this reason. I've seen some people go the whole hog and have a kitchen, wet (butler's) pantry, and then a separate dry pantry. What you're proposing is basically putting in a second kitchen - do you really need this? Would it be a much better use of space (as well as be functionally easier to use) if you added the extra appliance capacity to your main kitchen? Likewise for the sink in the pantry, it might be an interesting *idea*, but would you *actually* use it in practice? Do you really want to do food prep etc. stuck in the pantry? If you did put a sink in there, where will your dry storage be?

I'd also strongly suggest moving the sink to the rear bench and keeping the island clear. I'm seeing more and more people are doing this - it leaves the island clear for use as a multi-use surface (just the presence of the sink 'interrupts' the island benchspace much more than the area of the sink itself) and also means that any mess associated from the sink is nicely contained at the side of the room, not spread around in the middle. You might be surprised at how much bench space a clear island gives you - potentially even enough for that wall oven stack.

First_Timer_Ray · Feb 07, 2017 1:08 pm

Thanks for the responses.
I guess the idea behind the mini-kitchen pantry is to hide some of the mess associated with catering. An oversized single bowl sink with no drainer in the pantry could provide a practical space to wash up large baking trays, etc and be used for prepping food and stashing dishes. I am still contemplating moving the dishwasher into there too but I think that may be going too far, but cleaning up would mean all dishes are out of sight instead of the inevitable pile next to the sink.
We are a family of 4 and we regularly invite people over, so it's not uncommon to be catering for 10-12 people or sometimes more with kids.
Any dry pantry items are in sealed jars so I don't think it is an issue with having a sink in there, but I do get that heat could be an issue (but then the rangehood should help a bit with that).
Would it look odd to have a 900mm and 600mm underbench oven next to each other? And then a microwave space? Is a 900mm induction cooktop the biggest you can get? We were building with a volume builder so will be restricted somewhat to what they are able to provide I guess.
The relocating the main sink still has me in 2 minds... I'd like the sink to be close to the prep area (so I'm not dripping water all over the floor) and I would more likely use the island for that if I'm not using the pantry...

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This is the kitchen as displayed (our floorplan is flipped from this). I will be getting an integrated rangehood over the stove so it is a full strip of overhead cupboards and extra 10cm overhang to island.
More like at this display (again, flipped):
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Is a double 600mm wall oven tower perhaps the better option (like above but instead of a microwave, have a second oven? I don't think a tower would leave enough room to relocate the sink too so it's one or the other.
I think I need to research the internal widths of 600mm ovens...
Please keep the suggestions coming.

jodge · Feb 07, 2017 1:24 pm

I agree with moving the sink to the wall, off the island. We have 2x 600 ovens in the kitchen, either side of the stovetop. Are you buying your own appliances? We imported a 900mm Neff induction cooktop from Hungary last year, cost less than half the price, including freight and taxes. Can't wait to use it!

We're having a sink in our pantry. We've installed a ventair ducted exhaust fan in the ceiling as we're hoping to use the slow cooker, toaster, kettle etc. in there. Will let you know how that goes

First_Timer_Ray · Feb 07, 2017 1:27 pm

These are some of the photos I've pinned for ideas:

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First_Timer_Ray · Feb 07, 2017 4:56 pm

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Something like this? With 900mm cooktop - induction, and 2 600mm ovens under the bench.
If that's the case it will allow 400mm to the far left, then 2 600mm ovens, a 600mm microwave/drawer combination, 400mm bin drawer, 800mm sink cabinet and 600mm dishwasher. This leaves the island clear and only the oversize sink in the pantry. I guess with only 600mm ovens the oven trays/racks won't be such an issue to wash!

Some photos I've found:

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Craigasaurus · Feb 07, 2017 8:22 pm

I think the sink placement really is personal preference. You could consider having a small sink at one end of your island and a large sink in the pantry. I would leave the dishwasher close to where the dishes will go.

I don't think 2 ovens look out of place at at all.

It really is personal preference. I have a tower with two 600mm ovens and I have my sink off my island bench cos that's how I wanted it.

algernon · Feb 07, 2017 9:36 pm

I think the two ovens look fine.

If you want to claim some extra bench space for the kitchen you might be able to move the wall between the kitchen and the pantry to line up with the back of the fridge recess. That would shift around 800mm(?) of benchspace from the pantry to the kitchen (and would give you a bit of bench space that gives you a spot to tuck away dirty dishes while still being part of the main kitchen).

First_Timer_Ray · Feb 09, 2017 8:34 am

So I decided to play with some 3D modelling last night and came up with the 2 options. Now I just need to decide which. I am thinking to option with sink on the rear bench may be more practical.
Sorry, you'll have to use some imagination because my skills aren't very good... The cooktop is charcoal, the 2 ovens are mid-grey, the 'steel' coloured space next to the ovens is microwave, and grey rectangle in bench is the sink.
Sink in island:
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Sink to rear:
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algernon · Feb 09, 2017 10:22 am

Looking at the visualisation, my personal preference would be for the second. The rear bench is disrupted by the stove in either case, and the second plan leaves you with a nice uninterrupted island, which can then also be used for other purposes when you're not cooking.

With the second plan, you've also got handy enclosed corners either side of the sink and stove to (temporarily!) stash any messy items from work-in-progress without leaving them in full view of the room (which would be the case with the first option).

The second option also gives you a nice workflow from stovetop to sink (e.g. to drain pasta/boiled vegetables) without having to do a 180 degree turn while carrying a hot boiling saucepan.

First_Timer_Ray · Feb 09, 2017 10:51 am

Agreed. I've now convinced myself to move the sink to the rear bench.
I also worked out I'd like at least 2m of uninterrupted bench space to work on, and with the sink in the island it only leaves 1.6 from sink to end, and 1.55m either side of the cooktop so it doesn't really give enough uninterrupted work space.
Thanks for all the opinions. It helps to see a different perspective.

JayaJaya · Mar 07, 2017 10:04 pm

Glad you went with the clear island - so much more practical.
Where is your laundry trough in all this? Is it far?
I usually wash oversize trays and do big preps like for kimchi and sauerkraut in the stainless laundry trough.
I deliberately made the design for my current build so that I had the option of laundry or outdoor sink within easy distance of the kitchen.
That way there's no water in my pantry.
We ended up with a wall oven - I don't wanna bend to it when I'm '90 in the shade'!
We put another oven in the outdoor kitchen so there would always be another handy.