Browse Forums Kitchen Corner 1 Oct 28, 2014 10:41 am Hi all, We're about a week from handover of our house and a few weeks ago had the first walk through. One of the issues we saw was that on most of the kitchen cabinetry the edging on the door panels looked very rough and chipped. This was most noticeable on the white doors but the black ones had this problem too although harder to see (click image to see better). Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ The SS wrote it down as an item to be addressed but spoke to him today and he has now said that "this is the way the machine cuts them". In the meantime we had looked at display homes and other peoples kitchens and the edging in majority of cases is much better quality, looking more like this: Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ So now I feel a massive argument coming on and have said to him I'll e-mail him examples of better work (provided him the same image above) but I don't want to be brushed aside on this. Has anyone got any suggestions as to how I can convince the builder that this is substandard and needs to be rectified? I don't know enough about kitchen cabinetry to tell him this is not right - just that it looks awful... Thoughts? Re: Kitchen cabinetry edging quality 2Oct 28, 2014 10:56 am I don't know much about cabinetry but they look terrible to me and I'd be demanding they are replaced (not repaired). Maybe they need to sharpen theire machine?! Good luck and keep at them! Re: Kitchen cabinetry edging quality 3Oct 28, 2014 11:12 am I would most certainly not be accepting that! I would suggest you go through their display homes and take photos of the cabinetry in there to send to them Our build thread: https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=70984 Re: Kitchen cabinetry edging quality 4Oct 28, 2014 11:22 am While I think the photo of yours looks like it definitely needs fixing, the second one looks like it's that polycarbonate finish (I'm sure that's not the right word for it ... where the cupboards are all shiny & the entire exterior looks like a single piece of plastic)as opposed to yours being laminate. At least, that's what it looks like from those photos. Laminate usually doesn't look rough & chipped like yours, though, so you should definitely be able to get photos of decent looking laminate kitchens. Most display homes will have been upgraded, you may be better going to a kitchen place to get those photos. Only mentioning it so they can't argue that you're not comparing like-for-like. Re: Kitchen cabinetry edging quality 5Oct 28, 2014 11:32 am Hi Forg Thanks for the info. Our cabinets are Createc so not sure where that sits in the world of kitchen cabinetry but I know the one you're talking about. A lot of display homes have it (and it does look like it's one big piece of plastic) but the pics above were definitely ones I found where it's not one piece and there's a definite edge between the border and the face. I'm looking at visiting all their display homes to try identify similar cupboards but afraid they'll all be the the gold range (the builder is Kurmond) If the SS and builder dig their heels in on this what's the best course of action to take? Re: Kitchen cabinetry edging quality 6Oct 28, 2014 11:52 am I really dunno. I'd almost be tempted to ask them ... something like "I'm really unhappy with it, and I've never seen anything which looks as bad as this. If I need you to fix it, what's the way forward?". ie. not "will you fix it?" but "it's getting fixed, how do we do that?". Hopefully some of the experienced inspection /builder folk we have around here will chime in, there are rules about a lot of what's acceptable in the Building Code of Australia about non-structural stuff (for example paint defects are only classed as defects if they can be seen from 1.5m away - that's an aesthetics issue too). Re: Kitchen cabinetry edging quality 7Oct 28, 2014 12:35 pm No chance....The only bit of our cabinetry that looks like that was the back of a panel that was cut on site as it didn't fit. The rest is smooth and not chipped. Don't accept it, cabinetry is a very costly item to replace! Re: Kitchen cabinetry edging quality 8Oct 28, 2014 2:35 pm Forg I really dunno. I'd almost be tempted to ask them Building Code of Australia about non-structural stuff (for example paint defects are only classed as defects if they can be seen from 1.5m away - that's an aesthetics issue too). i couldnt find anything in the BCA on paint defects and viewing angle, I think youre refering to th eguides for standards and tolelrances, which initself is not a legal document, just a guide. To put it in perspective, my site super tried to brush off all the paint defects at PCI that werent visible directly infornt 1.5 meters away. Despite being visiblty many mor emeters way at a different angle. long story short post hand over, a very long product review review, and a visit from the construction manager everyone agress the paint work is not up to scratch. He even brought the paint rep in to have a look who straight up saw more defects than I had seen, and said it was not up to scratch. End result - Many many many walls being completely repainted to ensure no visible touch ups....AL despite the standards and tollerances. It all comes down to what is reasonable. And seing defects from any number of angles while walking around thehouse is NOT reasonable. So I would agree i dont think any reasonable person would see those cabinets and say they were acceptible. Especially when there are examples of the work being done perferctly out there. I would not accept it. You can avoid VCAT by being eloquent, knowing your facts and preparing for the conversation. If you cant communicate verbaly like this, do it in writing. Ultimately they want to stay out of VCAT if youre right, because they dont want a decision recordrd on public record that they were wrong. Just dont get angry and if they threaten VCAT, just call them out on it. If they really want to go to VCAT themselves, let them lodge the paperwork instead of you to save yourself the costs Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: Kitchen cabinetry edging quality 10Oct 28, 2014 3:35 pm Thanks for the info Ponzu. I've looked up the NSW guide for standard and tolerance and the section on Cabinet drawers and door fronts (10.04) directly references AS4386.1 Domestic Kitchen Assemblies – Kitchen Units with a section on quality of workmanship. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find a downloadable version of this document (can be bought for $$) so don't want to stump up cash just yet. I've already put my concerns about the quality of the edging in an e-mail to the SS today (with both the pictures I posted here) and have left a message with him to call me back and discuss. I've drafted another e-mail to the client liaison with my concerns that the feedback from the SS is unacceptable and that we want the issue escalated. I'll probably shoot that off tomorrow morning. Beazley77- Thanks - I will also post this to the kitchen corner thread and see if there's any advise there. Will keep everyone updated. Re: Kitchen cabinetry edging quality 11Oct 28, 2014 3:38 pm mckz I will also post this to the kitchen corner thread and see if there's any advise there. No need to double-up on posts, I've moved it to the Kitchen Corner for you Henley - Wilshire Mk 3 ... I love my house!! Site start: 4th Feb 09 Handover: 10th Sep 09 Blog: http://stormygirlscastle.blogspot.com/ Build Thread: viewtopic.php?t=7166 Re: Kitchen cabinetry edging quality 13Oct 28, 2014 7:05 pm Your doors are not right. It's hard to tell from the photo if the edging hasn't been trimmed properly or if the edge of the board is chipped. If you run your fingernail along the door face and come to the edge does it catch on the edging? If it does it may just need trimming/scraping to remove the edging and excess glue down flush. If the edging is flush then the panels have been cut poorly and are chipped, there is no fixing that and the doors and panel need to be replaced. The machines used to do the edging are called edge banders, they vary greatly in quality and price. A basic machine that you would use to edge the carcass really isn't up to the job of edging doors. The really good ones glue, cut, trim, scrape and polish the edging. Cheaper ones only do the first 3 processes which often means a less than desirable quality. Yours have definitely been done with a more basic machine. If they they just need trimming they should hopefully be able to get them looking much better. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Kitchen cabinetry edging quality 14Oct 28, 2014 7:34 pm Hi Chippy Thanks for the information, that's very useful to know. I probably won't have access to the house until handover to check whether it requires trimming or scraping but I've sent e-mails to our SS and customer liaison saying it's not good enough and that I want to escalate the issue. Hopefully I have good news tomorrow on this! Re: Kitchen cabinetry edging quality 15Oct 28, 2014 10:48 pm You had the idea when you went to look at others work in display home but if you can go to their display homes that have the same door panels materials (hopefully it's on display) take picture and use that as evidence of the standard. If it the same product in the display home that you paid for you should be delivered that product. Honestly sounds like the machine is in need of a service or the person using the machine needs to be better as it's not how it cuts them, that's rubbish. Re: Kitchen cabinetry edging quality 16Oct 29, 2014 6:39 am The doors are totally wrong. It looks like they have been cut by a 2 year old with a rusty pocket knife! Any with chips like that need to be replaced! Cutting Edge Kitchens and Cabinet Making http://cuttingedgekitchens.net.au http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cutting-Edge-Kitchens/290484196676 Mobile : 0419 430 575 PH: 9452 4772 Fax :9452 4772 cuttingedgekitchens@outlook.com Re: Kitchen cabinetry edging quality 17Oct 29, 2014 4:34 pm Hey all Only update I have today was an SMS from the site supervisor saying that the owner of the kitchen company would be looking at the cabinets today. Will post more when I have word from the SS saying what the outcome is. Re: Kitchen cabinetry edging quality 18Oct 31, 2014 12:01 pm Hi everyone Looks like we have a good outcome... The site supervisor rang me this morning to say that the owner of the kitchen company has had a look at them and is going to replace them. Thanks everyone for your advice. Cheers Re: Kitchen cabinetry edging quality 19Oct 31, 2014 6:42 pm That's the right result. Doors of that quality should never have been installed. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 No. It's not original. Circa early to mid 90s would be my guess and maybe even as late as early 2000s 1 6632 2 4680 that will depend on the kitchen bench depth. you'll have to specify it so it allows for both the tap and the sink 1 7394 |