Browse Forums Kitchen Corner 1 Nov 22, 2012 9:15 am I'm in the process of fitting an undermount sink and then a stone bench top, I asked a guy from work who just had one fitted and all they did was drop the sink into a 19mm chipboard top and then the 20mm stone went on top with a 20mm edge making it 40mm around the edge. Is it ok to use chipboard? I'm worried if it gets wet it will rot. Re: Question for CEK 2Nov 22, 2012 4:54 pm Wow thats a strange way of doing it. If its a proper undermount bowl it should be glued to the underside of the top. Undermount bowls are not made to drop into any surface(especially chipboard) they should be glued. Cutting Edge Kitchens and Cabinet Making http://cuttingedgekitchens.net.au http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cutting-Edge-Kitchens/290484196676 Mobile : 0419 430 575 PH: 9452 4772 Fax :9452 4772 cuttingedgekitchens@outlook.com Re: Question for CEK 3Nov 22, 2012 5:39 pm CuttingEdgeKitchens Wow thats a strange way of doing it. If its a proper undermount bowl it should be glued to the underside of the top. Undermount bowls are not made to drop into any surface(especially chipboard) they should be glued. are you saying there is no such thing as an undermount/drop in sink? Re: Question for CEK 5Nov 23, 2012 6:13 am tengals CuttingEdgeKitchens Wow thats a strange way of doing it. If its a proper undermount bowl it should be glued to the underside of the top. Undermount bowls are not made to drop into any surface(especially chipboard) they should be glued. are you saying there is no such thing as an undermount/drop in sink? No thats not what I am saying. I only mentioned proper undermount bowls. Proper undermount bowls have a rough surface on the top edge allowing them to be easily glued to the stone. There are bowls that do both but there are not many of them and I dont like using them as undermounts! If you are buying a bowl to undermount then I personally would only buy the proper one. Cutting Edge Kitchens and Cabinet Making http://cuttingedgekitchens.net.au http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cutting-Edge-Kitchens/290484196676 Mobile : 0419 430 575 PH: 9452 4772 Fax :9452 4772 cuttingedgekitchens@outlook.com Re: Question for CEK 6Nov 23, 2012 7:59 am I have a proper undermount sink, I think what my work mate ment is that they used the chipboard to get the bench thickness to 40mm? So, the sink would be bonded to the 20mm stone and then that sits on 19mm chipboard? Does that sound correct? Re: Question for CEK 7Nov 23, 2012 8:50 am PaulMac I have a proper undermount sink, I think what my work mate ment is that they used the chipboard to get the bench thickness to 40mm? So, the sink would be bonded to the 20mm stone and then that sits on 19mm chipboard? Does that sound correct? Thats what our builder is doing too.. they are glueing that sink to the stone but the sink sits between 20mm stone and 20mm board.. i think thats how they all work.. Building Henley Monaco Nouveau Q1 - Mernda Villages https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=57810 http://razbuild.blogspot.com.au/ Re: Question for CEK 8Nov 24, 2012 2:37 pm PaulMac I have a proper undermount sink, I think what my work mate ment is that they used the chipboard to get the bench thickness to 40mm? So, the sink would be bonded to the 20mm stone and then that sits on 19mm chipboard? Does that sound correct? Still doesnt need the chipboard. If its bonded to the stone and its a proper undermount why does it need the chipboard. Doesnt make sence to me. On a 40mm top only the edges are 40 ( 2x 20mm glued together) The bowl can be glue to the top 20mm piece or another doubling piece added and glue to the bottom of the 40mm. Still no need for chipboard! Cutting Edge Kitchens and Cabinet Making http://cuttingedgekitchens.net.au http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cutting-Edge-Kitchens/290484196676 Mobile : 0419 430 575 PH: 9452 4772 Fax :9452 4772 cuttingedgekitchens@outlook.com Re: Question for CEK 10Nov 25, 2012 9:58 am tengals stone top substrates are normally made from this material. every kitchen top i have ever seen put in has this type of substrate Hmmmm, no not really. I have built 40-50 kitchens this year and not one of them had chipboard underneath. The stone mason I use is one of the biggest in Sydney and they dont use a substrate either. CaearStone, Quantum Quartz, Silestone and most natural stones dont need a substrate. They normally have 100mm wide doubling strip at the front and one at the back. No more is needed. Products like corian need a substrate, they are usually thinner and also weaker than the other stones. Cutting Edge Kitchens and Cabinet Making http://cuttingedgekitchens.net.au http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cutting-Edge-Kitchens/290484196676 Mobile : 0419 430 575 PH: 9452 4772 Fax :9452 4772 cuttingedgekitchens@outlook.com Re: Question for CEK 11Nov 28, 2012 3:08 pm wow, interesting, all the volume builders i have ever seen have a substrate and the 3 stone top we have ever done in the past (all 40mm edge) from 3 different companies all used a substrate, so i find that really interesting Re: Question for CEK 13Nov 28, 2012 5:10 pm tengals so you would run a 20mm stone top with a 400mm overhang with no support. I never thought possible. I wonder what the load rating on that would be??? What the?? I never said anything of the sort! We are not talking about large overhangs, we are talking about standard bench tops with a normal 20mm overhang! For a start no stone should overhang 300mm without support! Second any overhang no mater what size should be full thickness. In all of my kitchens if they have a 40mm top with a 300mm overhang for stools its full thickness 40mm. At no point will you see 20mm. Cutting Edge Kitchens and Cabinet Making http://cuttingedgekitchens.net.au http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cutting-Edge-Kitchens/290484196676 Mobile : 0419 430 575 PH: 9452 4772 Fax :9452 4772 cuttingedgekitchens@outlook.com Re: Question for CEK 14Nov 28, 2012 7:08 pm most of the latest kitchens designs have islands with overhangs and breakfast bars mate, all pretty standard these days. Thus the need for support. So infact were are not "not" talking about stone tops with overhangs yeah? you have your way and it is very very clear there are other ways to do it. the OP never said it was a standard benchtop with 20mm overhang! so your also saying if I have a 3mt x 1mt island you will laminate 2 x pcs of 20mm slab the whole way? nothing wrong with doing it like that. Jesus it would be heavy though! how does you costing get on with twice the materials? Re: Question for CEK 16Nov 29, 2012 6:26 am tengals most of the latest kitchens designs have islands with overhangs and breakfast bars mate, all pretty standard these days. Thus the need for support. So infact were are not "not" talking about stone tops with overhangs yeah? you have your way and it is very very clear there are other ways to do it. the OP never said it was a standard benchtop with 20mm overhang! so your also saying if I have a 3mt x 1mt island you will laminate 2 x pcs of 20mm slab the whole way? nothing wrong with doing it like that. Jesus it would be heavy though! how does you costing get on with twice the materials? No hang on the OP was talking about an undermount sink with a standard overhang. No mention was made of large 400mm overhangs other than by you! If the OP had a large overhang it still wouldnt make it any different in the way the top is made. The large over hang section is solid 40mm stone the front small over hang is solid 40mm stone and the is a void in the middle on top of the cabinets where the sink is glue to! You have no idea what you are actually saying. You are just randomly blurting out stuff that makes no sence at all. When did I ever say that my island units are solid 40mm stone??? I only said the overhangs are solid 40mm, how do you jump from that to 2 3x1m slabs?? Stop reading between the lines, there is nothing to read there. Read exactly what I have written nothing more! Cutting Edge Kitchens and Cabinet Making http://cuttingedgekitchens.net.au http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cutting-Edge-Kitchens/290484196676 Mobile : 0419 430 575 PH: 9452 4772 Fax :9452 4772 cuttingedgekitchens@outlook.com Re: Question for CEK 17Nov 29, 2012 6:28 am Just so that I am fully clear tengals this is what the OP was talking about. He was asking if there was any need for the bowl to be mounted in a chipboard substrate. I answer no it is not needed and could actually cause problems. Wheather or not it has a large overhang doesnt change how it would be done! Cutting Edge Kitchens and Cabinet Making http://cuttingedgekitchens.net.au http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cutting-Edge-Kitchens/290484196676 Mobile : 0419 430 575 PH: 9452 4772 Fax :9452 4772 cuttingedgekitchens@outlook.com Re: Question for CEK 18Nov 29, 2012 6:38 am tengals a google search of stone top installations just fired back all the top answers confirming the use of substrates. very weird indeed. depends on the stone and what is required. All Ceasarstone products and those like them dont require any substrates other than the cabinets under then. Products like corian that are alot thinner need them. I am not talking about corian or products like it becuase I dont class them as stone. Corian type products can be worked with normal wood working tools and thus are alot softer and require more support. But this is not a standard stone bench top. I have use 20-30 different stone masons in sydney for 1000s of kitchens and not one of them use chipboard under there stone! The cheap nasty kitchens built by big housing companys will use chip board substrates because they cut corners and dont give solid 40mm breakfast bar overhangs. They only double up 50mm back from the edge giving no support thus needing the chipboard. In a proper kitchen installation the breakfast bar overhang should be solid 40mm stone the width of the overhang and extend 50-100mm past the begining of the cabinet. Thus no need for extra support! Cutting Edge Kitchens and Cabinet Making http://cuttingedgekitchens.net.au http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cutting-Edge-Kitchens/290484196676 Mobile : 0419 430 575 PH: 9452 4772 Fax :9452 4772 cuttingedgekitchens@outlook.com You can really use anything you want the main consideration would be how it looks once painted/finished - or the look you want. 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