Overhead cupbards, stove and sink under?

Rachelle · Mar 06, 2008 11:13 am

You can kind of see our current design on this floor plan:

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I'd like to get rid of the wall oven and move the stove over a bit, and I'd also like to get the sink onto that side to have a nice big island.

There will be a window under the overhead cabinets.

Hubby and I are both quite tall so cooking and washing up under overhead cupbards might be annoying. Can we move them up? What is standard? How far do they normally sit off the bench? Would it look strange to move them up higher by say 20cm? We could then have a small bulkhead above, or maybe even push them right to the ceiling?

We were going to get high ceilings but now we're going to have stacking sliding doors on that whole back corner (no support column) instead (we're out of $$).

Paula · Mar 06, 2008 11:20 am

My friends Dad is a cabinet maker and she told me if you are tall get your bottom cabinets 1 meter high instead of the normal (800mm ish i think)
so your not bending so much.

You could then raise the overheads, just dont have them very deep, that way they wont get in the way.

Dont forget you need a certain amount of space between your cooktop and the wall - where will you put the oven?

Rachelle · Mar 06, 2008 11:49 am

Thanks Paula, we really don't want to add anything extra, eg higher benches, as they whack us with the charges!!

We thought we'd put the oven under the stove. Just trying to get as much bench space as possible.

The original design was like a square with an opening, so lots of bench space, but we really wanted the back of the house to open right up so put a door where the red line is.

So many decisions!

Strumer · Mar 06, 2008 12:46 pm

Rachelle,

Good idea about moving the sink onto the wall side - from the plan it doesn't look like you have much set down space on the non drainer side of the sink; this is something that many people inevitably find annoying - and yes, you will have a nice big prep/breakfast area.

Standard benchtop height is o.k. - if you really want to make it higher ask the builder about increasing the height of the kickboards/plinth instead of making the cabinets taller. I can guarrantee that the increase in materials for him will be negligible.

If you do get rid of your wall oven combo, think about where you will put your microwave.
It would be a real shame to kidnap any of your very valuable benchtop real estate by a permanant piece of equipment.
Maybe you could hang a Microwave Wall Unit at the end of the wall section near the doors?
Alternatively you could consider putting the microwave in the Walk In Pantry...

Frequent practice is to have wall units at equal height to the bottom of the range hood (if you have one).

Australian Standards dictacte 600mm above the cooktop if it is electric, and 650mm if it is gas - but there is nothing stopping you from making this evren higher...except for the fact that many extraction units have a maximum effective working height...
If anything the higher the wall units are above a benchtop the cleaner and more open it looks, in my opinion, so simply raising the height of the wall units is a very viable option.
Just remember that you will most likely have tiles/glass et cetera splashbacks up to the bottom of the wall units and what ever height you increase your splashback by will cost you in increased splash material.

If you are really concerned about working in your own shadow (I know it annoys me immensely) you might want to consider trying to get the builder to allow for downlights in the bottom of the wall units.
This is something best designed for rather than trying to retro fit, but it can be done afterwards if he really digs his heels in.
There are a number of new products on the market including LCD strips which just get hung along the join between the cupboard and the wall and provide quite a difference in illumination.

An important thing to allow for if you are considering under cabinet down lights is the provision of power and switching for whichever solution you end up going with.

Cheers,

Earl

Rachelle · Mar 06, 2008 1:12 pm

Thanks Earl!!

Could the microwave go into the pantry? Does it need air or emit moisture or anything harmful to dry food?

I was thinking that in place of the wall oven (60cm) we would have an open overhead cabinet with the microwave in it so the stove would sit 60cm from that corner. We are having a slide out rangehood ,so next to that.

Not sure what you mean by "hang a Microwave Wall Unit at the end of the wall section near the doors?" as that whole wall has wall cabinets on it.

Actually how about eating into the cleaning cupboard for a wall opening just above bench height for the mirowave? Do they have microwaves with doors that open from the left? How deep would it need to be?

Appreciate your adive so much!

Strumer · Mar 06, 2008 1:38 pm

Rachelle

Thanks Earl!!

Could the microwave go into the pantry? Does it need air or emit moisture or anything harmful to dry food?

I was thinking that in place of the wall oven (60cm) we would have an open overhead cabinet with the microwave in it so the stove would sit 60cm from that corner. We are having a slide out rangehood ,so next to that.

Not sure what you mean by "hang a Microwave Wall Unit at the end of the wall section near the doors?" as that whole wall has wall cabinets on it.

Actually how about eating into the cleaning cupboard for a wall opening just above bench height for the mirowave? Do they have microwaves with doors that open from the left? How deep would it need to be?

Appreciate your adive so much!

Hi Rachelle,

Your microwave could go into the pantry, but yes there are issues with humidity - one solution could be to mount a small extraction fan (like in a bathroom) above the microwave, but this would need to vent somewhere...maybe your cleaning cupboard!

What I mean by a Microwave Wall Unit is essentially as you described it, an open cupboard with a couple of doors above it to bring the finished unit up to level with the rest of the wall units (as the Wall Microwave hangs lower than the rest of the wall units).
Hanging such a unit (632mm plus 16mm Wall Infill) to the left of the cooktop and range unit would be ideal - bear in mind that a Wall Microwave Unit normally only hangs about 480mm above a benchtop and hence provides less accessible benchspace beneath.

If there are any microwaves on the market that are hinged right (opening from the left) I have yet to find one...there have been discussions on this forum about this before...)
But if you can sleaze a cavity for your microwave underneath the stairs in some of the cleaning space you could be onto a winner - the microwave really only needs some space above the units to vent steam out of the cabinet...once again an extraction fan would be useful here and you could possibly connect it to the exisiting extractor or duct it seperately out of the external wall - your builder probably won't like you for suggesting this though.

When I suggested a Wall Microwave up near the doors I meant that you would replace one of the existing wall units with this cabinet.

Another thought would be to delete that understairs cleaning space completely and fit the wall oven and microwave in this space right up against where the door to the "cleaning" would be...then just extend in from your existing "under stair storage" to take advantage of any unused space.

Cheers,

Earl

Rachelle · Mar 06, 2008 2:50 pm

Thanks Earl

I don't think I'd like the microwave hanging lower than the other cabinets and we really need the cleaning cupboard to keep the vacume handy (messy kids and husband) aswell as store all the cleaning products (not safe for kiddies under sink)..

So it looks like my best option might be making a cavity.

One last question? What do you think of under bench microwaves? Have seen a few on some display homes and at first I thought it was strange and dangerous for kiddies but I have done some quick research and I see that a lot of microwaves have child locks. We could put it either next to the oven or hide it in the breakfast bar. Ventilation doesn't bother me too much as we don't use it very often (should I be thinking about ventilation more for occasional use?)

Strumer · Mar 06, 2008 3:49 pm

Hi Rachelle,

Underbench microwaves are currently very popular - I am seeing a lot of them in people's plans and in the magazines...but I have personally lived with one and I hated it.

To get anything in or out one has to bend/squat right down, and if you just want to check on the progress of something same thing, big bend down - then of course when you open the door the first thing you get is a face full of steam...this is why I like wall ovens and wall microwave units...same reason - easy to look into and easy to access, for anyone who wants to find out more about the subject google "Ergonomics"...this was a required componant of my course when I wrote my bachelors in design - but of course since I have entered the real world I have found out that fashion wins over function (and informed advice) 9/10.

Re ventilation, as said, as long as the steam has somewhere to escape to, which is frequently facilitated by a cavity larger than the actual microwave unit then you should be o.k. especially if the surrounds are made out of a good moisture resistant material.

Cheers,

Earl

First_Timer_Ray · Mar 06, 2008 5:27 pm

I don't see any reason that you couldn't leave the wall tower and have the microwave and an appliance nook in it with cupboards above and below, and have the oven underbench (or go for an upright cooker)... unless you wanted to get rid of the tower.
We have our microwave space underbench next to the oven... yet to see if I like it, but there was a lack of space options, and like you I don't like the hanging ones. We have one of these hanging microwave spaces in the rental we are in and the space underneath is as good as useless as the clearance is not enough to work on. If you DO end up getting a hanging microwave space, can I suggest putting in double powerpoints under it so that at least the kettle and toaster can live under it and not take up your other "valuable" workable benchspace.

Ray.

First_Timer_Ray · Mar 06, 2008 5:31 pm

Oh, and totally unrelated... maybe consider having your garage/entry door open into the entry space - your garage isn't very wide and you don't want to open the door and bang it into your car each time you come or go.

Ray.

Rachelle · Mar 06, 2008 5:35 pm

Thank Earl, I think it sounds like the cavity will be best. Need the Cleaning cupboard, but can afford for it to "sleazed from" hehe love that.

Ray I really want to get rid of the wall tower for two reason, 1 I prefer the look of the kitchen with all wall cabinets the same depth, eg without the wall tower sticking out by an extra 20 or 30cm (anal aren't I?) and also if I'm going to move the sink onto that wall I need to make a bit more bench space and 60 or so centimetres would help a lot!

I think if we they're not going to charge us a fortune for the cavity, then we'll go for that, otherwise under the bench for us too! I can see that it will be a bit inconvenient though!!

Hey! The kids could heat up their own bottles! Joking

They would enjoy it for popping popcorn though

Rachelle · Mar 06, 2008 5:59 pm

ah bugger, just read the left hand microwave thread, I'm going to be in the same predicament with a right hand opening one.

So I'm back to the wall tower and less bench space or an under the counter. Unfortunately I think under the counter is going to annoy me less than no bench space between the stove and the sink.

Rachelle · Mar 06, 2008 6:02 pm

hehe yeah thanks Ray, what a stupid place for a door.

I think it's just there because on our last plan changes we pushed the garage in, so where it is now was previously the back of the garage, somebody was half asleep when they were making our changes!

I actualy thought I'd put it at the back, across from the study door (we're pushing the garage in by the last 5cm so they will line up), what do you think?