Browse Forums Kitchen Corner Re: Caesar stone join on island bench :-( 41Oct 07, 2011 11:31 pm Sorry but i would not be happy with that join at all,i think after paying extra to get what you would like to have something like that would make my blood boil & very rightly so. A join should not be seen easy,if you have to look for it your installer has done his job well. 40mm stone has the extra stuck onto the edges,if you are looking at it on a bench already & as i said above you would swear it was all the way through. Also i think any builder worth their weight in gold would think that the person building the house may like to know where a join is,do we not get to pick where a light switch is,power points etc. And we were told that they never ever put joins near cutouts,this area is weaker & its a big NONO Here is a photo off our join,IRL it shows up less than the photo Sorry get back to photo tomorrow,PB & i dont like each other at the mo. Mine is real stone though but i would expect the same service for anything. Block bought 1st RBC X! 2nd Ventrua,Keeper! Pstart 18/7/11 Ethwks jan 2012 Slab Bricks- finished 7/6 Roof Trusses 15/6-cbond 21/7 viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41185 Re: Caesar stone join on island bench :-( 42Oct 08, 2011 8:40 am kerry-ann And we were told that they never ever put joins near cutouts,this area is weaker & its a big NONO Mine is real stone though but i would expect the same service for anything. I am sorry but that is totally wrong! A join can go in a sink or cooktop cutout without a problem. You just need a good stone mason to do it. All my kitchens are done this way and I have never had any problems! Some real stones join up far better than the man made stones. The quailty of the join has a few things that influence how much of it your see, The skill of the stone mason The colour of the stone Is it a flat colour or does it have a fleck through it Cutting Edge Kitchens and Cabinet Making http://cuttingedgekitchens.net.au http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cutting-Edge-Kitchens/290484196676 Mobile : 0419 430 575 PH: 9452 4772 Fax :9452 4772 cuttingedgekitchens@outlook.com Re: Caesar stone join on island bench :-( 43Oct 10, 2011 12:42 pm That's right Cutting Edge. Cut outs are very often done in cook tops and sinks. The join may have been unavoidable but the thickness of the pictured join, the fact that it isn't even from top to bottom and the glue is wrong for that bench top colour is all due to workmanship. Re: Caesar stone join on island bench :-( 44Oct 10, 2011 1:22 pm Leni_82 The join may have been unavoidable but the thickness of the pictured join, the fact that it isn't even from top to bottom and the glue is wrong for that bench top colour is all due to workmanship. I totally agree. You get what you pay for with the stone industry. There are some really cheap deals out there but its the joins that let them down. When I quote stone I will only use 1 or 2 companys that I am happy with there work. The cost slightly more but I know the customer will be happy. If the customer want to use a cheaper company then that is fine but I will not garrentee there job as it is usually inferior. Cutting Edge Kitchens and Cabinet Making http://cuttingedgekitchens.net.au http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cutting-Edge-Kitchens/290484196676 Mobile : 0419 430 575 PH: 9452 4772 Fax :9452 4772 cuttingedgekitchens@outlook.com Re: Caesar stone join on island bench :-( 45Oct 10, 2011 4:17 pm Exactly, we've had customers tell us they've gotten cheaper quotes and we've said "wish you all the best." and 9 out of 10 ring us back to fix what the stonemason has done. Ends up costing more in the end.. There is no point cutting corners when it comes to your home. Re: Caesar stone join on island bench :-( 46Oct 14, 2011 10:36 pm CuttingEdgeKitchens kerry-ann And we were told that they never ever put joins near cutouts,this area is weaker & its a big NONO Mine is real stone though but i would expect the same service for anything. I am sorry but that is totally wrong! A join can go in a sink or cooktop cutout without a problem. You just need a good stone mason to do it. All my kitchens are done this way and I have never had any problems![/b]Some real stones join up far better than the man made stones. The quailty of the join has a few things that influence how much of it your see, The skill of the stone mason The colour of the stone Is it a flat colour or does it have a fleck through it I did not say it cannot be done. I am talking about joins not cut outs per say I said "we were told that (meaning our stonemason said) they never put joins near cutouts,this area is weaker (because off the cutout) & they consider it a big NONO! The same as they do not transport slabs with cutouts because they are weaker. Any work done shows how good/bad the stonemason is off course,its the same with bricklayers,painters etc...... He does this just about everyday off the week,with weekends as cashy jobs. Joins to the sink look well horrible to me but each to their own,i prefer them hidden (by placement & quality job)& i believe him when he says it makes the area weaker. But like i said each to their own. Block bought 1st RBC X! 2nd Ventrua,Keeper! Pstart 18/7/11 Ethwks jan 2012 Slab Bricks- finished 7/6 Roof Trusses 15/6-cbond 21/7 viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41185 Re: Caesar stone join on island bench :-( 47Oct 15, 2011 7:08 am kerry-ann CuttingEdgeKitchens kerry-ann I am talking about joins not cut outs per say I said "we were told that (meaning our stonemason said) they never put joins near cutouts,this area is weaker (because off the cutout) & they consider it a big NONO! The same as they do not transport slabs with cutouts because they are weaker. Any work done shows how good/bad the stonemason is off course,its the same with bricklayers,painters etc...... He does this just about everyday off the week,with weekends as cashy jobs. Joins to the sink look well horrible to me but each to their own,i prefer them hidden (by placement & quality job)& i believe him when he says it makes the area weaker. But like i said each to their own. Joins in CeasarStone cant be hidden at all. You will always see them. Some colours you will see less than others. If you put a join in a sink or cooktop cutout you only see 60mm of the join at the front and the back. If you were to put it else where you would see the entire length of the join running front to back. I am not sure why you stone mason said it was a NoNo, but it isnt. It is actually a prefered placed to join tops on long runs as the eye doesnt see it as much. The join is only as good as the guy doing it and if he isnt confident in putting a join in a cutout then its probably better that he sticks to what he knows. My stone mason is one of the largest and best in the country and he would do 1000s of tops a year with the join in the cutout without any problems at all! Simple fact is though once glued and joined together properly the tops is no weaker with a join in the cutout!! Please also be aware that some tradesmen will tell you a "story" to make there job alot easier. I have seen this so often, a trademan says no mam it cant be done and then has 10 reason why it cant. It sounds very convincing to her. But the simple fact is that it could be done and he was just trying to save himself time and money. Not all tradesmen are like that be there are alot that do it! Cutting Edge Kitchens and Cabinet Making http://cuttingedgekitchens.net.au http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cutting-Edge-Kitchens/290484196676 Mobile : 0419 430 575 PH: 9452 4772 Fax :9452 4772 cuttingedgekitchens@outlook.com Re: Caesar stone join on island bench :-( 48Oct 15, 2011 6:24 pm CuttingEdgeKitchens Joins in CeasarStone cant be hidden at all. You will always see them. Some colours you will see less than others. If you put a join in a sink or cooktop cutout you only see 60mm of the join at the front and the back. If you were to put it else where you would see the entire length of the join running front to back. I am not sure why you stone mason said it was a NoNo, but it isnt. It is actually a prefered placed to join tops on long runs as the eye doesnt see it as much. The join is only as good as the guy doing it and if he isnt confident in putting a join in a cutout then its probably better that he sticks to what he knows. My stone mason is one of the largest and best in the country and he would do 1000s of tops a year with the join in the cutout without any problems at all! Simple fact is though once glued and joined together properly the tops is no weaker with a join in the cutout!! Please also be aware that some tradesmen will tell you a "story" to make there job alot easier. I have seen this so often, a trademan says no mam it cant be done and then has 10 reason why it cant. It sounds very convincing to her. But the simple fact is that it could be done and he was just trying to save himself time and money. Not all tradesmen are like that be there are alot that do it! I agree with the bolded points. We do joins in the cut out all the time, as it's the area where you'll notice the least amount of join. Why would you want a join that extends over 600mm of a bench top rather than a little at the front and back of a cut out? What was written above about the join depending on the skill of the stonemason is absolutely crucial to this. For recon we do cutouts in the factory before getting on site (most of the time) as no one wants to additional dust in their home, and recon is usually ok to travel. Granite on the other hand we may do on site and marble we always do on site. Re: Caesar stone join on island bench :-( 49Oct 15, 2011 9:31 pm lol ok my last post on this subject before i bore everyone to tears. CEK The ops heading was about Caesar stone joins. I said i would not be happy with it. I also said in agreeance with you both "That a join should not be seen easliy,if you have to look for it your installer has done his job well" A join extending the width off the bench if done by a great installer is very hard to see as ours shows. Because of the pattern in the stone you have to search for it. Re"if you put a join in a sink or cooktop cutout you only see 60mm of it" And this the whole point of this thread. We dont wont to see any off it! I am not sure why your stonemason said it was a NONO, Well because he believes it weakens the stone at that point,the same as you believe it does not. The join is only as good as the guy doing the job (as i said) & if he is not confident in putting a join in a cutout then its better that he sticks to what he knows. Nothing to do with confidence at all as i said above,he thinks joins there are inferior i guess. Please be aware that tradies will tell you a story to make their job easier. Too right they will,but I dont believe the stonemason put 1 join in our bench to make his job easier,to do a better job & make the finish outstanding YES bingo! He also in the same job measured everything so we had 1 join,all off cuts could be used,we got a full height splashback for the stove,wall splashbacks,cutting boards for the kitchen & barbi all outta 3 slabs Leni Why would you wont a join that extends over 600mm rather than alittle at the front. Because you cant see it,his that good We do cutouts in the factory before getting on site as no one wonts additional dust in their home. Too right thats why he did it on the back lawn. Granite on the other hand we may do on site. Well yes,the op is talking about recon stuff,as i said in my first post i'm talking about real stone,granite but that i would expect the same service no matter what it was. I have only talked about my benchtops & the stonemason & what he believes is the right thing. I'm happy for anyone to have a different point of view,but just because they do it does not mean they are right & he is wrong,Each to their own. I'm more than happy with his job,infact quite afew on here are more than happy too! Thanks guys & cheers Block bought 1st RBC X! 2nd Ventrua,Keeper! Pstart 18/7/11 Ethwks jan 2012 Slab Bricks- finished 7/6 Roof Trusses 15/6-cbond 21/7 viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41185 Re: Caesar stone join on island bench :-( 50Oct 16, 2011 7:19 am [quote="kerry-ann"]lol ok my last post on this subject before i bore everyone to tears. kerry-ann, you need to understand that there are right and wrong ways of doing things. Recon stone comes in 3060 lengths. Any top over that length needs to have a join in it. I fitted a kitchen 5m long for a customer so the run between corners needed to have a join in it. The cooktop was in the centre of benchtops. Any compitent stone mason would put the join in the cooktop cutout. Your stone mason would put the join on one side of it and you would see the entire join. I would not except this from any stone mason. It is totally worng and looks terriable. It is not weaker as you say, your stone mason is totally wrong. A proper oven cabinet(below the cooktop) should have two supporting rails at the front and a supporting rail at the back. My oven cabinets front rail is strong enough to stand on. So when a top is joined above it provides more than enough support. You are going off information you have been given by one stone mason. Len_82 and I are giving you information gained by direct experience with 1000s of kitchens, many different stone masons and over 20 years in the industry. I am not sure why you are so adamant your right with very little experience and only one masons advice. Cutting Edge Kitchens and Cabinet Making http://cuttingedgekitchens.net.au http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cutting-Edge-Kitchens/290484196676 Mobile : 0419 430 575 PH: 9452 4772 Fax :9452 4772 cuttingedgekitchens@outlook.com Re: Caesar stone join on island bench :-( 51Oct 16, 2011 8:42 am CuttingEdgeKitchens I am not sure why you are so adamant your right with very little experience and only one masons advice. She is defending herself because she is being attacked for repeating what her stonemason told her. She isn't saying she is right, but that was the advice that was given to her. For what it's worth I was also told it was a no no to have a joint in cutout for much the same reason, and the stonemason doing my job has been in the business for 30+ years so I doubt he lacks experience or knowledge. Maybe it is one of those things where there is no right or wrong, just personal preference and personal experiance of the stonemason involved. Re: Caesar stone join on island bench :-( 52Oct 16, 2011 9:11 am AJW CuttingEdgeKitchens I am not sure why you are so adamant your right with very little experience and only one masons advice. She is defending herself because she is being attacked for repeating what her stonemason told her. She isn't saying she is right, but that was the advice that was given to her. For what it's worth I was also told it was a no no to have a joint in cutout for much the same reason, and the stonemason doing my job has been in the business for 30+ years so I doubt he lacks experience or knowledge. Maybe it is one of those things where there is no right or wrong, just personal preference and personal experiance of the stonemason involved. H1 has been a an awesome resource for me during our build, but one of the most frustrating aspects of H1 IMO is the seemingly constant stream of uneducated advice given to those requesting info. Although all replies are appreciated and considered, due respect should be given those within the given trades who volunteer their knowledge, advice, and time to those of us uneducated. I am constanly amazed at trade experts having to argue technical info with home builders who have received second hand advice, or info through chinese whispers. Agreed, not all trades are 100% correct, but if two or three give the same supporting opinion it is quite disrespectful to continue the argument. Remember, without the trade experts H1 becomes far less valuable. If the experts see their input as not being appreciated, then they will go elsewhere, or use their H1 time to make more money for their business in the workshop. Please consider. BTW. I have 40mm Ceasarstone with sharknose? edge, and have join through the middle of the recessed hotplate. All cutouts except for the Zip Hydrotap were done in the workshop. Re: Caesar stone join on island bench :-( 53Oct 16, 2011 10:07 am Kerry-ann you are entitled to believe whatever you like. You are happy with your bench tops and that is all that matters. Sometimes we join the cutouts and sometimes we join the long edges of the bench. I have to admit though, I have been here only a short time but people are quite aggressive at times with their posts.. Just an observation I've noticed, but this place is cool overall.. Re: Caesar stone join on island bench :-( 54Oct 16, 2011 5:58 pm Hi AJW,yep they just dont get what i'm saying at all sadly. Guys it is not about right or wrong,I was explaining what our stonemason said & what he did at our house,thats it!!! I WAS NOT THE ONE WHO SAID "SORRY WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS WRONG" BECAUSE ITS NOT,THAT IS THE WAY THE STONEMASON DID THE JOB AT OUR HOUSE,WHICH IS SURPERB & WHAT HE WILL BE DOING IN OUR NEWLY BUILT HOUSE. I am not saying i know better than anyone else,i have not been disresectfull to anyone by trying to make it any clearer that i am just saying what we had done & what we were told by our stonemason,are you reading what i have actually said geez Thanks for your comment but I am talking about stone Oz,real stone not the recon stuff. I answered a post about joins in bench-tops,thats it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Any answer after was to tell me our stonemason was useless,telling stories to get out of the hard work etc................. Not interested in t*t for tat Thank-you Leni,thats all i was saying,i feel very comfy here too,I did not realise i was acting aggressively,sorry cripey mosses how crazy is this,shakes head & walks away.........................pft........................ Block bought 1st RBC X! 2nd Ventrua,Keeper! Pstart 18/7/11 Ethwks jan 2012 Slab Bricks- finished 7/6 Roof Trusses 15/6-cbond 21/7 viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41185 Re: Caesar stone join on island bench :-( 55Oct 16, 2011 9:07 pm Hi everyone, I just wanted to say thanks for all the feedback. No thread of mine has had this many resoponses! I am grateful for all the differing opinions - this is a forum after all and everyone is entitled to have their say. What I have learnt is to accept what I have, an ordinary join in my 3+ meter caeserstone bench. The colour match could've been better making the join less obvious. Unfortunately as volume builders go, I did not have the luxury of choosing my stone mason let alone meeting them. The builder should've mentioned the stone would have a join in it as it was one of their kitchen 'options' they were offering. If this was done, I would've been prepared and made a more informed decision. As for the placement, I much rather it where it is (across the sink) than anywhere else - imagine that join spanning the width of my bench... that thought is scary! I hope this thread help others who are having long stone benchtops incorporate the number and positioning of their joins so they too can make an informed decision. This is a fantastic forum full of useful information. Re: Caesar stone join on island bench :-( 56Oct 17, 2011 9:36 am kerry-ann Hi AJW,yep they just dont get what i'm saying at all sadly. Guys it is not about right or wrong,I was explaining what our stonemason said & what he did at our house,thats it!!! I WAS NOT THE ONE WHO SAID "SORRY WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS WRONG" BECAUSE ITS NOT,THAT IS THE WAY THE STONEMASON DID THE JOB AT OUR HOUSE,WHICH IS SURPERB & WHAT HE WILL BE DOING IN OUR NEWLY BUILT HOUSE. I am not saying i know better than anyone else,i have not been disresectfull to anyone by trying to make it any clearer that i am just saying what we had done & what we were told by our stonemason,are you reading what i have actually said geez Thanks for your comment but I am talking about stone Oz,real stone not the recon stuff. I answered a post about joins in bench-tops,thats it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Any answer after was to tell me our stonemason was useless,telling stories to get out of the hard work etc................. Not interested in t*t for tat Thank-you Leni,thats all i was saying,i feel very comfy here too,I did not realise i was acting aggressively,sorry cripey mosses how crazy is this,shakes head & walks away.........................pft........................ Wasn't particularly talking about you... With my house we are using natural stone, and we are doing an L shape with a join in the sink.. Keep in mind all posters, sometimes doing a join through the long edges is unavoidable as L shapes are a definite NO NO with recon. Wil void their warranties. Re: Caesar stone join on island bench :-( 57Oct 17, 2011 7:33 pm kerry-ann Hi AJW,yep they just dont get what i'm saying at all sadly. Guys it is not about right or wrong,I was explaining what our stonemason said & what he did at our house,thats it!!! I WAS NOT THE ONE WHO SAID "SORRY WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS WRONG" BECAUSE ITS NOT,THAT IS THE WAY THE STONEMASON DID THE JOB AT OUR HOUSE,WHICH IS SURPERB & WHAT HE WILL BE DOING IN OUR NEWLY BUILT HOUSE. I am not saying i know better than anyone else,i have not been disresectfull to anyone by trying to make it any clearer that i am just saying what we had done & what we were told by our stonemason,are you reading what i have actually said geez Thanks for your comment but I am talking about stone Oz,real stone not the recon stuff. I answered a post about joins in bench-tops,thats it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Any answer after was to tell me our stonemason was useless,telling stories to get out of the hard work etc................. Not interested in t*t for tat Thank-you Leni,thats all i was saying,i feel very comfy here too,I did not realise i was acting aggressively,sorry cripey mosses how crazy is this,shakes head & walks away.........................pft........................ Hi Kerry, My comment, although using your example, wasn't at you specifically. More so just a reminder to all that we need the expert opinion on here (well I do anyway ). Just been something that has been bothering me about the forum generally. So please dont be upset. Theres enough stressors in the whole construction thing without H1 contributing also. Hope your stone goes well. We originally were going to go stone (people scared us off that because of stains with the kids etc), then polished concrete (but Onc has done the floors so thought bench would be too much, so did the cowardly safe option and went recon. Cheers, Shane Re: Caesar stone join on island bench :-( 58Oct 19, 2011 5:34 pm I have a join but it is at the place where my stove is. So the join is really only a few centimeters. The colour I have is 'Osprey' but we can barely see the join, no one notices until I point it out really. Apparently they take abit of the ground up stone and mix it with the joining material so it blends right in. My aunt has a simular stone though and it looks like they've just joined it with plain old white glue or something, it looks terrible! Different installers. I asked about where the join would be when I was looking at getting Caesarstone as I am picky about those things. Re: Caesar stone join on island bench :-( 59Oct 20, 2011 8:01 am Laila Apparently they take abit of the ground up stone and mix it with the joining material so it blends right in. Now that's a neat trick! Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Caesar stone join on island bench :-( 60Oct 20, 2011 8:34 am Laila Apparently they take abit of the ground up stone and mix it with the joining material so it blends right in. Casa - my stonemason did the same thing. The way he was talking it was standard practice? Some things are worth waiting for. Thankyou for your advice. We do have Caesar coming out and hopefully resolve the issue for us. 4 18748 DIY, Home Maintenance & Repair Are you going to have the frame exposed or are you cladding it with something. Usually if you are making an exposed frame you would use solid legs around 100x100 or… 3 6585 Dear Members I have to decide the Facade column size. 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