Browse Forums Kitchen Corner 1 Feb 11, 2011 6:36 am Trying to surf the challenging environment of quotes for kitchens. Can anyone tell me what is good quality in cabinet making and what questions I should be asking the cabinet makers? I know the mechanisms that I want, Blum tandembox, soft motion, I know I want high gloss vinyl wrap but when it comes to the quality of the cabinet I am at a loss. My builder has said to make sure that the back is solid and that's about all the advice he has come up with. I am after good quality minus the enormous price tags that are out there! Anyone else out there who could help, any cabinet makers? thankyou all in advance! Re: What makes cabinets good quality? What questions to ask? 2Feb 11, 2011 7:05 am I am sure some cabinetmakers will be abl;e to give you some good advice. From what I have seen, most of the fascia material is MDF and the only real variance is the thickness, so generally thicker is better I think. You can usually tell by looking of hinges are good quality and obviously Blum is very high spec stuff. Not sure about backing etc whether there is much difference in how they are put together. But what I would advise is go to you cabinetmakers workshop and look at the operation. That is what we did and we could tell by talking to his employees and looking at the operation that it was a quality set up. Re: What makes cabinets good quality? What questions to ask? 3Feb 11, 2011 7:49 am leanne27 Trying to surf the challenging environment of quotes for kitchens. Can anyone tell me what is good quality in cabinet making and what questions I should be asking the cabinet makers? I know the mechanisms that I want, Blum tandembox, soft motion, I know I want high gloss vinyl wrap but when it comes to the quality of the cabinet I am at a loss. My builder has said to make sure that the back is solid and that's about all the advice he has come up with. I am after good quality minus the enormous price tags that are out there! Anyone else out there who could help, any cabinet makers? thankyou all in advance! Most cabinets are butt jointed and have solid back in 16mm melamime for the carcass(where you see the holes drilled and hinges attached, then the panels, doors and kickboards are mostly made with mdf and coated with different materials laminated, painted etc. The quality of the cabinet (unless Earl disputes me) is in the joinery and how it all fits together perfectly including cooktops, ovens, micros,pantries, rangehoods other kitchen gadgets and the final product is the kitchen. Blum is a very good product but costly and the more drawers you want the more will cost you Anyway that's my two cents Re: What makes cabinets good quality? What questions to ask? 4Feb 11, 2011 8:36 am leanne, Good question. How do you know you are getting good quality for the price you pay? The boxes or carcasses are made of particle board - ask if they will be using waterproofed board or standard board. You can tell the difference - standard particle board is yellow/brown coloured, waterproofed has a green tinge to it. (That is the composition of the board not the outside skin colour.) Yes indeed ensure the backs are solid same as the other panels. The rest of it is all about craftsmanship and how well it is all put together. To keep costs down you might source all of your panels from a flat pack supplier and then get a local tradesman (recommended) to put it all together. As there are several trades involved ie plumbing and electrical and perhaps masonry depending on your benchtop - these all need to be coordinated and that could be the role of the tradesman/cabinet maker. barkly Re: What makes cabinets good quality? What questions to ask? 5Feb 11, 2011 8:59 am barkly leanne, Good question. How do you know you are getting good quality for the price you pay? The boxes or carcasses are made of particle board - ask if they will be using waterproofed board or standard board. You can tell the difference - standard particle board is yellow/brown coloured, waterproofed has a green tinge to it. (That is the composition of the board not the outside skin colour.) Yes indeed ensure the backs are solid same as the other panels. The rest of it is all about craftsmanship and how well it is all put together. To keep costs down you might source all of your panels from a flat pack supplier and then get a local tradesman (recommended) to put it all together. As there are several trades involved ie plumbing and electrical and perhaps masonry depending on your benchtop - these all need to be coordinated and that could be the role of the tradesman/cabinet maker. barkly You mean HMR high moisture resistant? Re: What makes cabinets good quality? What questions to ask? 6Feb 11, 2011 9:26 am Thanks for all the great input! So if the joinery is key is it just a matter of waiting to see (!) or looking at previous jobs or is there a specific technique I should ask about in relation to joinery? Sorry if these questions are dumb but I am trying to become better informed. Re: What makes cabinets good quality? What questions to ask? 7Feb 11, 2011 9:32 am leanne27 Thanks for all the great input! So if the joinery is key is it just a matter of waiting to see (!) or looking at previous jobs or is there a specific technique I should ask about in relation to joinery? Sorry if these questions are dumb but I am trying to become better informed. Nothing much to add to the above just look at the fished product not at the gloss (Don't be like magpies) door overlapping, little gaps, straight cuts, smooth edges, no gaps between cabinets. Anyway doors hide many imperfections unless you dare to ask for a door to be removed Re: What makes cabinets good quality? What questions to ask? 8Feb 11, 2011 10:15 am grinder The quality of the cabinet (unless Earl disputes me) is in the joinery and how it all fits together perfectly including cooktops, ovens, micros,pantries, rangehoods other kitchen gadgets and the final product is the kitchen. Oh, zing! Ha ha...no there's not much to add to that except maybe that one should be aware that there are different levels of quality in the HMR boards available for fabrication. Much board is now being manufactured in China and it is not always the same quality as boards made specifically for the Australian market (the green tinge doesn't automatically mean the board is moisture resistant, some companies include it in the glue to make it look like quality board) - there are VOLUNTARY tests that boards can be subjected to see that they conform to requirements - AS/NZS 1859.1(Int) and AS/NZS 1859.2(Int) which has been set as a best practice standard. There are also standards supported by AELA (Australian Environmental Labeling Association) that certify that: 1)The Board Products falls within the Australian Standard formaldehyde limits for MDF and Particleboard. 2. Board Products that contains fibre from plantation forests or recycled fibre only. As stated these standards are not mandatory but one could question why anyone chooses not to conform to them, especially the formaldehyde content level. Most manufacture is now done by large and expensive CNC machines, normally a nesting router, so all joins should be perfect. Because of the machine costs a lot of smaller cabinetmakers are buying their cabinets from high volume fabricators unassembled and putting them together before installation, as this can be cheaper than making them in-house. This does not mean the cabinetry is of any lesser quality. Any good supplier will provide cabinets made to order and not restrict you to standard sizes - this should also apply to any variation on traditional formats of cabinetry; just because something is not commonly done does not mean it can't be done, and if your supplier refuses to make a certain type of cabinet you can benefit by closely examining his reasons - mostly it will only be because they buy stock sizes on volume agreements and have to pay more for variations. The variation theme also applies to finishes and colours - beware of people who only supply a few standard ranges, especially if you really want something different. Some colours and finishes will cost more but it should not mean you can't have them if you want them. This can mean something as simple as black edges on all cabinets if you are having black doors; we recently did a job where the decorator had specified the entire kitchen in black gloss two pack - the client was lucky we pointed out that all the cabinet edges also needed to be in black otherwise the white would shine between the gaps in the doors and drawers. And as Grinder says, top quality hardware is a must for long and happy use of a good kitchen - we only use Blum as they have never let us down. Just a few things to bear in mind. Cheers, Earl Re: What makes cabinets good quality? What questions to ask? 9Feb 11, 2011 11:23 am Hi Leanne, some simple questions you can ask - are the cabinets made out of HMR (high moisture resistant paticle board) - if getting laminate tops same question about the HMR - what emissions rating does the board have E0 or E1 is the least emmisions - chinese imports come with no rating and have been shown to have very high levels of Formaldahyde which have cancer causing agents believe it or not (not good for somewhere you prepare your families food) - do they use solid 16mm backs (not stapled 6mm masonite backs that can come away from the back of the cabinet) - how are the cabinets constructed. Are they just stapled together or are the conformat screwed. - are the drawers metal sided. Blum is a good brand, and there are also other great brands that are similar. Just make sure the drawers come with a sufficient weight rating (30 - 40kgs for pot drawers) - for soft close drawers, is the mechanisim intergrated into the drawer or is it cheap and susceptible to damage (blum are integrated). - what warranty comes with the kitchen and the hardware - is the vynal doors uv treated and heat resistant Hope this helps With 25 years kitchen experience and a passion for what I do, I have joined this forum to offer advice or at least my opinion on all things relevant to kitchens. I was a cabinetmaker by trade and am now a senior manager of a kitchen company. Re: What makes cabinets good quality? What questions to ask? 10Feb 11, 2011 1:03 pm Thankyou for the really great responses. So I have answers to these questions: HMR yes, boards are made in Australia, not China all 16mm cabinets are nailed and glued (he said a melamine glue) the drawers, runners hinges are all Blum, tandembox with soft close The vinyl wrap is Bonlex which is thermopressed but he doesn't know about UV protection gives a standard 7 yr guarantee for all work What do people think, is this looking like good quality? his price is less than half of the quotations we have received so I was suspicious that something was inferior but can't see it? Re: What makes cabinets good quality? What questions to ask? 11Feb 11, 2011 2:29 pm leanne27 Thankyou for the really great responses. So I have answers to these questions: his price is less than half of the quotations we have received so I was suspicious that something was inferior but can't see it? Yes you missed to mention something important have it all written in a contract form not just promises up in the air Re: What makes cabinets good quality? What questions to ask? 13Feb 11, 2011 3:39 pm grinder Yes you missed to mention something important have it all written in a contract form not just promises up in the air Excellent point - make sure to get a signed copy of the dimensioned plan and elevations as well. Cheers, Earl Re: What makes cabinets good quality? What questions to ask? 14Feb 12, 2011 10:02 am Strumer grinder Yes you missed to mention something important have it all written in a contract form not just promises up in the air Excellent point - make sure to get a signed copy of the dimensioned plan and elevations as well. Cheers, Earl Hi Earl I think home should make a sticky of this topic. Don't you think? Re: What makes cabinets good quality? What questions to ask? 15Feb 12, 2011 11:05 am Im happy to get this made as a sticky if that's what you would like? These are very useful comments and tips which Im sure would benefit many members. And I wont comment on the thread..... BUT let me just say, that you could always ask to see a current kitchen if it would put your mind at ease? And "cheaper" price doesnt necessarily mean inferior - take in to considerations overheads i.e. does the company advertise or rely on word of mouth recommendations, do they have loans for machinery etc PM me if you would like to discuss anything Custom European Cabinets - Melbourne Kitchen Specialist PM for business details as website currently being updated! Our Crazy Owner Builder Journey! Re: What makes cabinets good quality? What questions to ask? 16Feb 12, 2011 12:06 pm yes please. Thank you Bam A very valid point Bam You do not need to fork out a fortune for a new nicely done kitchen that goes for appliances, plumbing,tiling and electrical work too often seen as separate components of the total cost of a kitchen. So I would say to potential kitchen renovators beware(caveat emptor) negotiate everything within the parameters given above and you wont be disappointed. Re: What makes cabinets good quality? What questions to ask? 17Feb 13, 2011 8:08 pm Thanks for being so helpful! How exciting that my first thread has been made sticky! Any ideas on managing delivery of kitchen in terms of how long they take to make? My builder has flagged that some cabinet makers can be very late in sticking with time frames, hence delaying overall work schedules? Re: What makes cabinets good quality? What questions to ask? 18Feb 14, 2011 4:23 pm Hi Leanne, Kitchens normally take 4 -6 weeks to build. Most places do not guarantee delivery date, but there are some company's our there that will. Re: What makes cabinets good quality? What questions to ask? 19Feb 15, 2011 7:17 am It depends on how busy the cabinet maker is Custom European Cabinets - Melbourne Kitchen Specialist PM for business details as website currently being updated! Our Crazy Owner Builder Journey! Re: What makes cabinets good quality? What questions to ask? 20Feb 20, 2011 8:50 pm Make sure you see their work first. Small gaps between doors is a must! 0 7158 0 6425 It's MGP 10 which means every length has been machine graded to it's specified engineered strength. It may not look pretty and if you where hand picking your timbers you… 1 7891 |