Unfortunatly in most cases this is all too true. It really sucks.
Also remember that what was written in the contract was more than likely a typo. They would have left out the words doubled up.
Browse Forums Kitchen Corner Re: Am I being ripped off?? 21Oct 09, 2007 8:04 pm Casa2 So there you have it. If the builder wants to deviate from the contract that's OK. If the customer wants to deviate from the contract, not allowed. Unfortunatly in most cases this is all too true. It really sucks. Also remember that what was written in the contract was more than likely a typo. They would have left out the words doubled up. Re: Am I being ripped off?? 22Oct 09, 2007 8:40 pm <edit>
I take that back.... For the moment I have reverted to username - mattwalker Carlisle Homes - Grande 43 My building experience is here: http://www.ourgrandeplan.blogspot.com Re: Am I being ripped off?? 23Oct 10, 2007 8:17 am Also waiting on your outcome Matt...
Same choice as you, same builder & same wording in the contract.... very interesting!! Mike. My Blog... http://ahouseonthehill.blogspot.com/ Re: Am I being ripped off?? 24Oct 10, 2007 8:57 am cuttingedgecabinets Casa2 So there you have it. If the builder wants to deviate from the contract that's OK. If the customer wants to deviate from the contract, not allowed. Unfortunatly in most cases this is all too true. It really sucks. Also remember that what was written in the contract was more than likely a typo. They would have left out the words doubled up. If there's a typo in a contract, what happens. I think it is AS WRITTEN, not as intended. If it's as intented, but not as written, then I think I've spotted a typo in my contract. The zero at the end of the price shouldn't be there. Seriously, a contract is AS WRITTEN. Both parties must fulfil their requirements exactly AS WRITTEN. Changes, with compensation, can occur, but only if mutully agreed. Also, the courts always favour the customer, not because they are biased, but because the customer is only doing this once and rarely writes the contract,while the builder does this many times and prepared the contract. Builders should know better. Normally I would come to some mutually acceptable arrangement, but Carlisle have not been very accomodating up to now, so I would wait for them to show some good will first. And plenty of it. Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Am I being ripped off?? 26Oct 11, 2007 2:38 pm What exaclty did the contract say.
Because if it only says 40mm Ceaser Stone benchtops, it could be interpreted two ways. Normally if it is going to be solid 30-40mm it actually states that. Unfortunatly that have installed 40mm Ceaser Stone tops as per contract becuase 40mm can either be solid or doubled up. You would have a water tight case if the contract had the word "solid" in it. Re: Am I being ripped off?? 27Oct 11, 2007 3:40 pm cuttingedgecabinets What exaclty did the contract say. Because if it only says 40mm Ceaser Stone benchtops, it could be interpreted two ways. Normally if it is going to be solid 30-40mm it actually states that. Unfortunatly that have installed 40mm Ceaser Stone tops as per contract becuase 40mm can either be solid or doubled up. You would have a water tight case if the contract had the word "solid" in it. This is the wrong way around, You would have a water tight case unless the words "doubled up" in it. Builders must take the onus to be clear - and the courts take this stance. Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Am I being ripped off?? 28Oct 11, 2007 5:42 pm Casa2 Quote: This is the wrong way around, You would have a water tight case unless the words "doubled up" in it. Builders must take the onus to be clear - and the courts take this stance. No, I dont believe this. It is industry standard to double up ceaser stone for a 40mm finish. The builder didnt state either way weather it was 40mm doubled up or 40mm solid. He just said it was 40mm. My belief is that the courts would say it was up to the owner to clarify eactly what 40mm meant. Unfortunatly I think it would be a waste of time and money to take any legal action. BUT, I believe that you have a case with the builder. He wasnt 100% clear in his wording and you can use that. You might be able to get a discount or an upgrade on something in the house. Its worth a try. Re: Am I being ripped off?? 29Oct 11, 2007 6:03 pm cuttingedgecabinets Casa2 Quote: This is the wrong way around, You would have a water tight case unless the words "doubled up" in it. Builders must take the onus to be clear - and the courts take this stance. No, I dont believe this. It is industry standard to double up ceaser stone for a 40mm finish. The builder didnt state either way weather it was 40mm doubled up or 40mm solid. He just said it was 40mm. My belief is that the courts would say it was up to the owner to clarify eactly what 40mm meant. Unfortunatly I think it would be a waste of time and money to take any legal action. BUT, I believe that you have a case with the builder. He wasnt 100% clear in his wording and you can use that. You might be able to get a discount or an upgrade on something in the house. Its worth a try. Undoubtedly it is indusry standard. And every builder would know this. But most customers would not. This is the point. The customer does not know industry standard and is not expected to. Again, this is why the courts are on the customers side to ensure builders make the effort to explain everything. In this case, the builder has failed. Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Am I being ripped off?? 30Oct 11, 2007 7:43 pm Casa2 cuttingedgecabinets Casa2 Quote: . Again, this is why the courts are on the customers side to ensure builders make the effort to explain everything. In this case, the builder has failed. This is assuming that the courts is on the customers side. Which in this case I dont think they would be. 40mm is 40mm weather it be doubled up or solid. Unfortunatly you cant get past that fact and thats why I dont believe you would have any luck with legal action. Dont get me wrong. I believe that the contract was worded wrongly. But I also believe that the builder could build very a strong case to show that he has infact supplied 40mm ceaser stone. Re: Am I being ripped off?? 31Oct 11, 2007 11:46 pm Although the issue has since been resolved CEC I think you misunderstand.
The benches I have are 20mm thick. Around the outside edge about 50mm deep is a further 20mm to bring the edge to 40mm. The rest of the second layer is mdf board. The issue is not that it is joined but rather that the material supplied is only half there. Hope that makes sense I have reverted to username - mattwalker Carlisle Homes - Grande 43 My building experience is here: http://www.ourgrandeplan.blogspot.com Re: Am I being ripped off?? 32Oct 12, 2007 10:43 am And that makes all the difference I think. No one could argue that you got 40mm tops... You got 20mm tops with a border. Re: Am I being ripped off?? 33Oct 12, 2007 12:21 pm Audio Visual Dreams Although the issue has since been resolved CEC I think you misunderstand. The benches I have are 20mm thick. Around the outside edge about 50mm deep is a further 20mm to bring the edge to 40mm. The rest of the second layer is mdf board. The issue is not that it is joined but rather that the material supplied is only half there. Hope that makes sense Mate, I understand fully. I install build and install kitchens for a living. I have never seen solid 40mm ceaser stone tops ever they are always doubled up with an MDF or ceaserstone ribs. The only time I have seen 40mm is when two pieces are joined together for a waterfall side that is seen on both sides(you couldnt double it up like yours have been as you would see the MDF) The doubling up method you discribe is an Industry standard. It is done by every company that supplys these tops. Most of the colours are only available in 20mm. As I said before when you are given a 40mm benchtop it can be done in to different ways. Neither is right or wrong and both are still a 40mm benchtop. If you had solid 40mm tops they would still be 2x20mm joined together, but it would cost twice the price. Re: Am I being ripped off?? 34Oct 12, 2007 12:27 pm I wanted the 40mm benchtops throughout my entire home as well (they just look so much better than the 20mm) but i didn't go with the upgrade for this exact reason. I couldn't justify why i would spend so much more money to upgrade it to this. I was lucky though I had a very good sales consultant at the time who let me in on how they actually did the benchtops. Re: Am I being ripped off?? 35Oct 12, 2007 9:26 pm Sallyho I wanted the 40mm benchtops throughout my entire home as well (they just look so much better than the 20mm) but i didn't go with the upgrade for this exact reason. I couldn't justify why i would spend so much more money to upgrade it to this. I was lucky though I had a very good sales consultant at the time who let me in on how they actually did the benchtops. If you have a poper kitchen company design, build and install your kitchen that arnt contracted to the building company then they will explain how 40mm benchtops are constructed. The problem arise when the kitchen company is working for the building company rather than the owner. Re: Am I being ripped off?? 36Oct 12, 2007 11:04 pm cuttingedgecabinets Sallyho I wanted the 40mm benchtops throughout my entire home as well (they just look so much better than the 20mm) but i didn't go with the upgrade for this exact reason. I couldn't justify why i would spend so much more money to upgrade it to this. I was lucky though I had a very good sales consultant at the time who let me in on how they actually did the benchtops. If you have a poper kitchen company design, build and install your kitchen that arnt contracted to the building company then they will explain how 40mm benchtops are constructed. The problem arise when the kitchen company is working for the building company rather than the owner. CEC What you say makes sense but take your kitchen cap off for a moment and think about how many builders use "professional" kitchen makers?? About the same amount who use professional colour consultants and professional home installation companies... Matt I have reverted to username - mattwalker Carlisle Homes - Grande 43 My building experience is here: http://www.ourgrandeplan.blogspot.com Re: Am I being ripped off?? 37Oct 14, 2007 7:20 am [quote="[/quote]
CEC What you say makes sense but take your kitchen cap off for a moment and think about how many builders use "professional" kitchen makers?? About the same amount who use professional colour consultants and professional home installation companies... Matt[/quote] I do alot of house fitouts for builders and the home owner. Around the area I service, nearly every builder uses a quality cabinet maker or kitchen company. Sounds like this isnt happening where you are. Some people ask for the interanl cabinet fitout to be left out of the price and organise it themselves. Re: Am I being ripped off?? 38Oct 14, 2007 9:53 am No volume builder that I am aware of would allow you to install the kitchen after handover.
Flooring, carpets etc ... sure. But not a kitchen. I am sur ethe cabinet makers down here are of a reasonable quality and no doubt use the same materials as you use. Maybe the quality of the fella's putting it together is not as good though. I have reverted to username - mattwalker Carlisle Homes - Grande 43 My building experience is here: http://www.ourgrandeplan.blogspot.com Re: Am I being ripped off?? 39Oct 14, 2007 11:11 am I can actually add to this……1 to CEC and 1 to Matt!
BUT I’M TOO TIRED!!!! Maybe later..... Internal and External Building and Colour Consultant Online - Worldwide http://www.denovoconcepts.com Re: Am I being ripped off?? 40Oct 14, 2007 12:23 pm Audio Visual Dreams No volume builder that I am aware of would allow you to install the kitchen after handover. . No, I am not saying that. You have the construction company leave out whatever you want internally and get your cabinet maker in at the same time as the builder would have. This way the house is complete at handover. I have done a number of kitchens for people this way. They were not happy with the options and finishes available for the cabinet work so they got there own tradesman in for this part of it. My garage door has started playing up recently. Sometimes (and getting more frequent) when I press the button to open it, it wont. The motor is an ATA GD0-6V3. Red and… 0 2664 Being an owner builder is no walk in the park. It’s a challenging endeavour that requires dedication and hard… 0 9993 I couldn't attached the photo for some reason. Here is the link to the photo https://pin.it/79jwdMp 1 3113 |