Browse Forums Kitchen Corner 1 Dec 08, 2009 10:24 am Hi Everyone. As you can see I am new here. First time builder. Long story short we built our place through a builder (completed April 09). Basically all the initial stuff was done through an estate agent and then the builder built it. We changed the floor plan of the house and added a dishwasher provision. We got a final price back and was happy with this. Fast Forward to Final inspection before handover and we discover they have not put in a dishwasher provision. Have argued black and blue with them and gone to Consumer Affairs. They said it's hard to make a definate ruling on it as half the contract says there should be one, and half of it says there shouldn't be. Electrical plans say it does. We never got plans of the kitchen, cupboard view, or anything like that and were none the wiser (1st time building). Builders won't give us a breakdown of the extra costs we paid (to extend the house and change floor plan, and supposed dishwasher provision). Consumer Affairs said we need to take it to VCAT. In order to do this we need to get 2 quotes. I'm having trouble GETTING quotes. I've been looking for 6 months now and can't get one person to do me a quote. I must be looking in the wrong place. Can someone offer some suggestions on where I can get a quote (Melton, Victoria). The kitchen space looks like this (the depth the edge of the countertop is actually 59cms, we realise it's 1cm shorter but don't mind it poling out a bit, WE JUST WANT IT IN! : Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Please help (in any way or form you can - where to get quotes, your opinion, what I can do, etc). it would be muchly appreciated. I am HOPING to get my dishwasher installed by the time I go back to work from M at Leave (Feb). It's sitting in the garage in it's box still as we bought it before we moved in. Re: HELP - Kitchen Reno (for Dishwasher) 2Dec 08, 2009 11:09 am If you are not having any luck with a cabinet maker, try a local Hire-A-Hubby or other handyman. They are just as competitive in price and do a good job. If you are only looking for the quote, usually the bigger joiners are better to go to (Choice cabinets, Claytons Kitchens, G.H Cabinets). "I never learned a thing until I finished school" - Unknown "You can get anything accomplished, If you don't mind who gets the credit" - Ned Hay Re: HELP - Kitchen Reno (for Dishwasher) 3Dec 08, 2009 3:28 pm Ahhh that is a real bummer. I can't help you with quoting but I can give you some information about your cabinetry. Without looking behind those doors I have to go on a few assumptions, which are: That is a 1200mm sink cupboard? Those are standalone 900mm x 900mm bifold corner units either side? Or does the sink unit continue into the corner cabinet on the left hand side of the shot? (rare but not unheard of.) If the first is true, then the biggest problem is creating the space for the dishwasher to stand in - basically you don't have the room for a 600mm dishwasher between the left hand corner cupboard and the sink bowls. A freestanding dishwasher normally needs 605mm between the gables or end panels of the cabinetry. Without either moving the sink to the right (new benchtop ALLROUND) or removing and replacing the lefthand corner unit with a blind cabinet (so the door is on the left only and you have to reach back into that evil space created by the "blind return") you will find it very hard to fit a dishwasher into that kitchen. My guess is that someone who didn't know enough about kitchen design generally or your design in particular agreed to provide the allowance before someone else realised that the space wasn't there...and now they hope you will just eventually give up and go away. The only way I can see a dishwasher fitting into this space is by doing what I had to do when encountered with a similar situation: Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Of course there are a lot of reasons why this solution might not suit you - but if it did, you could fit the dishwasher in the left had side of the under sink cabinet and get a new door made to cover the rest of the space - then a second "fold down" door could be made to fill the space above the Dishdrawer. If you can get someone to quote to make good on this job they are going to have to: Remove (and probably replace) the kickboard. Remove the sink cabinet - which means disconnecting the taps and drain, plumber to attend. Remove the corner unit - not a pleasant job, made harder or easier depending on whether the kitchen is on feet or a ladder base. Install a new blind corner unit on the left and a new narrower sink unit - without damaging anything else - fit new kickboards, then while the plumber is there to reconnect the sink he/she can lay the water and drain for the dishwasher. While this job is doable it is not easy and it will be a complete pain to do without lifting the benchtop; in fact it might be simpler to sacrifice the benchtop to make the removal of those two cabinets easier (time = money); although if there is a breakfast bar on either of those sides it will be a lot of top to replace if they can't get it out from under the splashback tiles with damaging the top or the tiles. Of course these methods are to achieve a professional finish. It is also possible to do a complete butcher job hacking out parts of cabinets and fitting replacement fill panels but I can't even contemplate that sort of a result in a brand new kitchen. If I were in charge of a job that screwed up that badly I would be desperate to find an alternative to trying to fit the dishwasher in, such as the Dishdrawer solution or just giving you a thousand or so dollars as the job will probably cost whoever is paying at least that much. I can imagine that most cabinetmakers wouldn't be very keen on touching it - there are too many concerns about causing damage that extends beyond the profit of the job. This is not to say that there isn't someone who can do it for you but they will need to be keen. This probably doesn't help you in the way you want, but it should at least give you an idea of the scope of the work and provide you some knowledge for your next round of efforts to get this job righted. I really hope you have a good out come. Cheers, Earl Re: HELP - Kitchen Reno (for Dishwasher) 4Dec 08, 2009 5:19 pm Strumer That is a 1200mm sink cupboard? Those are standalone 900mm x 900mm bifold corner units either side? It's a pain in the arse as it's a custom house so those cupboards are actually 1170mm. The corner ones are Bifold. Strumer If the first is true, then the biggest problem is creating the space for the dishwasher to stand in - basically you don't have the room for a 600mm dishwasher between the left hand corner cupboard and the sink bowls. Yep, we were contemplating getting a single bowl sink, but then we would need to get a new benchtop as we can find any single bowl sinks that are the same length as the 1.5 one we have. Strumer Without either moving the sink to the right (new benchtop ALLROUND) or removing and replacing the lefthand corner unit with a blind cabinet (so the door is on the left only and you have to reach back into that evil space created by the "blind return") you will find it very hard to fit a dishwasher into that kitchen. That's basically what we want to do, have it installed in the left hand corner and instead of the door being bi-folding, just have it open up (hinge on left) and you have to reach around to grab stuff. That's not a major thing for us as we can store our appliances that we use once every few months in there. Strumer My guess is that someone who didn't know enough about kitchen design generally or your design in particular agreed to provide the allowance before someone else realised that the space wasn't there...and now they hope you will just eventually give up and go away. hehe definately not going to happen. I am stubborn! I'm lodging with VCAT tomorrow. If they decide it's not the builders fault, then oh well, if they decide that we are right then 1 for us and 0 for Snowdon and I will happily get my dishwasher installed. Strumer While this job is doable it is not easy and it will be a complete pain to do without lifting the benchtop; in fact it might be simpler to sacrifice the benchtop to make the removal of those two cabinets easier (time = money); although if there is a breakfast bar on either of those sides it will be a lot of top to replace if they can't get it out from under the splashback tiles with damaging the top or the tiles. I was hoping it wouldn't be too much work (powerpoint is existing). I was hoping they can just chop and change the bottom cupboards around. I think that would look ok if it's done by a professional. I would be looking at using the existing Bi-fold door, but turn it into a single door (for the blind cabinet) and then getting 2 replacement doors. or 1 single slimmer one, for the gap between the dishwasher and the other 600mm one. Strumer I really hope you have a good out come. Thank you! I ended up getting a quote today $1790 (builders quoted $1800). Will do the whole lot with insurance and cert of compliance and all that jazz. Doesn't include extra cabinet doors if needed and additional site visit. Covers the cost of 1 days work and chopping and changing them. Trying to get another one. Seems the chopping and changing might be the best way to go (left corner)? Hope to get VCAT to rule that the builder needs to pay the costs for it (reimburse us) anyway. Fingers Crossed. Re: HELP - Kitchen Reno (for Dishwasher) 5Dec 08, 2009 5:28 pm Good news on the quote - it sounds about right. I'm glad you are aware of the issues and have a sound plan. If you do have a win and you get a proposal it might be worth posting it up here so we can all have a look and give our various opinions! Good luck! Cheers, Earl Re: HELP - Kitchen Reno (for Dishwasher) 6Dec 09, 2009 11:55 am Do you think it's silly installing the dishwasher in the laundry? If even possible? The gap is PERFECT, and it doesn't seem to far, as compared to having a dishwasher in a really big kitchen and there is plumbing near it (washing machine taps and laundry sink). It could go there or be swapped around with the washing machine so it's next to the sink. This is where it would be situated compared to the kitchen. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Do people think this is silly, or a worthwhile option if it's too costly to put it in the kitchen? Re: HELP - Kitchen Reno (for Dishwasher) 7Dec 09, 2009 6:16 pm I wouldnt put it in the laundry as it would be so annoying going back and forth. I would just keep fighting to get the company to fix their mistake. Maybe even the one dishdraw option may be ok. How long do you guys plan on staying in the house? It would put me off the kitchen not having a dishwasher space if i was a buyer. Re: HELP - Kitchen Reno (for Dishwasher) 9Dec 09, 2009 9:24 pm It's not too bad. We ended up putting it there temporarily tonight until we hopefully get it sorted. Better there than nowhere at all for now. Agreed that will go in kitchen if builder has to pay, and stay there if they don't. It doesn't look too bad and is only a 1.9m walk to the cupboards. Just like having it in a big kitchen. Here is what it looks like. Cost us $11 to put it here so no big loss if and when it ends up in the kitchen *fingers crossed* Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: HELP - Kitchen Reno (for Dishwasher) 10Dec 09, 2009 9:49 pm sorry to hear about all the who-ha with your builder Just a note on the dishwasher, make sure you have extended warranty! We have the same model and the plastic spinner at the bottom has worn away twice and the wash display where you press which cycle you want has now gone blank, no light up numbers any more. Other than that has been a dream machine, turbo dry is awesome If you need a kitchen drawn up, post it on this thread - gotta give me a couple of days though:) viewtopic.php?f=16&t=26892 Re: HELP - Kitchen Reno (for Dishwasher) 11Dec 09, 2009 9:50 pm sorry to hear about all the who-ha with your builder Just a note on the dishwasher, make sure you have extended warranty! We have the same model and the plastic spinner at the bottom has worn away twice and the wash display where you press which cycle you want has now gone blank, no light up numbers any more. Other than that has been a dream machine, turbo dry is awesome If you need a kitchen drawn up, post it on this thread - gotta give me a couple of days though:) viewtopic.php?f=16&t=26892 I am installing a new Bosch SMU4HTS01A built under dushwasher. I have 2 questions. 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