Anyone sell their own property (no agent)?

Alex in Vertu · Oct 05, 2014 3:27 pm

So very old thread here... was hoping for more recent opinions, particularly if you are based in WA.

Having never sold a house before, I may have a very simplistic view of real estate (perhaps ignorance

). My belief is that people who want to buy a house look at one of the big websites (realestate.com.au or domain.com.au etc). So if you can get your place advertised on these websites you are pretty much there. Having no sales experience may be a negative, particularly with home opens, but I think the house will do most of the talking.

I have found a place that will guide you through the whole process for about $1,400, fixed. These guys provide the support, sign for the front of your house and signs for home opens, but most importantly, advertise on the websites listed above (and a few others) - they are registered real estate agents. I have 2 quotes from real estate agents, both pretty much 11k fixed price. So nearly 10k savings.

What are your personal experiences selling a house without an agent? Did you get a package like I described above? Who with? The main thing I am not sure about is the bit after an offer is accepted - does the settlement agent take over from here?

Any responses are appreciated!

aware · Oct 05, 2014 5:01 pm

Up to date info ? why would that be? ITs still all the same.

Have you read the thread in its entirety? these some good info there, unfortunately some bad info too because no one has delved into the complexity of locale. Selling in the frenzy of Melb and Sydney is different to selling elsewhere in Australia. A DIY seller is likely to be a lot more successful in those 2 places due to crazy demand.

Selling your house is a piece of cake. Have it tidied up, advertise, then make appointments with prospective buyers , do not have open houses. Serious people will make to appointments. Open houses are a free for all and gawking session where the the nosy neighbours come too.

When the buyer makes you an offer - then you have to prepare a contract. If you dont know what to do engage a solicitor or conveyancer - its a fixed fee service.

You can try these listing sites.
http://www.buymyplace.com.au/
http://www.diysell.com.au/
http://www.noagentproperty.com.au/
http://www.noagentshere.com.au/
http://www.saveoncommission.com.au/

To ascertain the right price to sell at , you will need to spend some time researching. Ideally you should be tracking asking prices, going to open houses (see thats why you dont do them!), then seeing what they sell for. you can do all this using realestate.com.au or domain.com.au You can also get a valuation done and use this in your negotiations - people cant argue with a valuation.

Alex in Vertu · Oct 05, 2014 6:25 pm

Thanks for the response. I am not worried about the valuation - have been watching what is going on in the area and had a couple of agents give their advise, as well as more recently the bank. I like the idea of skipping home opens so if I go down this path I will take that advise. Same with the conveyancer.

And yeah I did read the thread - the general theme seemed to be that DIY sellers don't get their properties advertised on realestate.com.au. And a lot can change in 2 years, not to mention 4 years when most of the discussion was happening.

Thanks again for responding.

qebtel · Oct 06, 2014 1:16 pm

Alex in Vertu

I like the idea of skipping home opens so if I go down this path I will take that advise. Same with the conveyancer.

Open house inspections, like auctions, are a furphy created by the real estate industry. Heres the insider tip - open houses allow an the agent to network and gain more contacts at your expense - nothing else. Sure an open house may attract a buyer, but they probably would have inspected by appointment anyway.

Another thing, there is no control at open houses - hordes of people come through at once, and you have no idea what they are doing - things do get stolen (a set of plans laying on the table were stolen once!) Again, agents dont want you there so you dont see this.

Alex in Vertu

And yeah I did read the thread - the general theme seemed to be that DIY sellers don't get their properties advertised on realestate.com.au. And a lot can change in 2 years, not to mention 4 years when most of the discussion was happening.

You can get on Realestate.com.au no worries. The first two of the five links given above are the most popular DIY sites in Australia. they have no affiliation with Realestate.com.au. the last 3 link will get you on r.c.a. I think these companies have been aorund for years so nothing has changed much.

fredandwilma · Oct 15, 2014 11:00 pm

I have sold 4 houses and a block of land privately. I just used the cheapest company that could get me on realestate.com.au, had my own sign made, had my own home open signs made, printed my own brochures. I never advertise for sale by owner. I make the ad sound like its an agent and introduce myself as the owner when people arrive, never before because many are shy to deal direct. On the back of the brouchure I explain that reiwa contract is used and invite them to either email or text offers or even use a buyers agent. I also write dont be shy come and have a chat. All have ended up sigining up face to face. Its easy once you make them comfortable. I have even obtained testimonials from past buyers and used them on the brouchure. Everyone comments how good it is to deal with the owner without real estate agent BS. You can buy the reiwa forms from a newsagent for next to nothing. Its easy, you just need to price it right, present it well, get people in the door and make people feel comfortable with you. I always have 1 hour home opens from 1-2pm. I usually get agents come in fishing for a listing telling me they will get me more. Once I ask them to guarantee it and pay their own marketing costs they cough, splutter and leave.

Treeseachanger · Oct 15, 2014 11:21 pm

Yes we sold a house privately, got some professional photos done fairly cheaply and posted the ad on real estate.com. Inspection by appointment only. It took just over 3 weeks to sell, no agent's fees, just the cost of the photos and the advertising. In that time we had two developers interested and two people who wanted to rent back with a view to buy, three others interested and making offers. Developers always want the property cheap so they can renovate/refurnish/whatever. We eventually sold to a couple who wanted a family home. We got 3 free market appraisals done and also checked prices in our area for similar homes before advertising.

Do your research. We had our conveyancer standing by to check the wording of the O&A before submitting it. By law you also need to give the prospective buyer a copy of the RE General Conditions.

After taking the prospective buyers through I would then ask for their feedback. Generally they were pretty honest about what they wanted and I also got a feel as to whether they were genuine or not. A good experience.

fredandwilma · Oct 16, 2014 12:42 am

Treeseachanger

By law you also need to give the prospective buyer a copy of the RE General Conditions.

The General Conditions are part of the reiwa contract so must be given if the reiwa O&A is used, but as far as I know there is no law saying you must use the reiwa O&A and no law saying prospective buyers must be given it. You only need to give it to the actual buyer if you use the reiwa form. Unfortunatley we have been brainwashed to think that we must use the reiwa contracts, so making a sale without them would be difficult.

Treeseachanger · Oct 16, 2014 10:27 am

I don't think so. Since REIWA is the governing body from my research I still had to produce it when selling privately. No one ever reads it (maybe lawyers) but at least we have complied with the law.

fredandwilma · Oct 17, 2014 3:27 am

Reiwa is not a governing body, it is simply a professional association for real estate agents who pay membership fees. Membership is not compulsory. The Dept of Commerce is the body that oversees all agents and controls their licenses. You only have to give general conds to the actual buyer, not all prospective buyers, and only if you use the reiwa contract, which most people do.

qebtel · Oct 17, 2014 10:39 am

fredandwilma

Reiwa is not a governing body, it is simply a professional association for real estate agents who pay membership fees. Membership is not compulsory. The Dept of Commerce is the body that oversees all agents and controls their licenses. You only have to give general conds to the actual buyer, not all prospective buyers, and only if you use the reiwa contract, which most people do.

ITs exactly the same here in Qld, except that whether you use the Standard REI contract, or a boutique one, the buyer must always be given the obligatory warning forms. If in WA its not required with boutique contracts, that needs tightening up.

Treeseachanger · Oct 17, 2014 2:37 pm

Yes, thats what I was told by our conveyancer, whether we used the REIWA forms or not...

fredandwilma · Oct 18, 2014 2:38 am

qebtel

ITs exactly the same here in Qld, except that whether you use the Standard REI contract, or a boutique one, the buyer must always be given the obligatory warning forms. If in WA its not required with boutique contracts, that needs tightening up.

Warning forms? What do the QLD ones say? No such thing in WA. I would like to see that introduced in WA. They could warn

1. That there is no way out of a reiwa contract once signed, even if you find that the agent/buyer/seller has conned you.
2. Never let an agent use the word warrant or warranty in the special conditions.
3. Never let an agent hold your deposit.

I could write pages on this but getting off topic....

The point I have been trying to make is that the seller only needs to buy one copy of the general conds and give it to the actual buyer. They dont have to buy enough to give to every prospective buyer.

Treeseachanger · Oct 19, 2014 6:31 pm

Understood.

qebtel · Oct 20, 2014 9:27 am

fredandwilma

Warning forms? What do the QLD ones say? No such thing in WA. I would like to see that introduced in WA.

These two forms are obligatory with any contract, and there is a 4? day cooling off period where you will lose at most a small % of the deposit ($500 or so)
http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/__dat ... -buyer.pdf
http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/__dat ... tement.pdf

fredandwilma

They could warn
1. That there is no way out of a reiwa contract once signed, even if you find that the agent/buyer/seller has conned you.

Are you sure? In Qld you can terminate the contract any time up to settlement if the vendor has misled you. You can also sue after settlement for the same reason.

fredandwilma

2. Never let an agent use the word warrant or warranty in the special conditions.

Any words are ok. Its the context of their use this is important.

fredandwilma

3. Never let an agent hold your deposit.

Why? In Qld they have to operate a trust account under strict fiduciary rules, you cannot misappropriate funds from them without getting caught and penalised.

I seriously doubt WA is so backward these basic protections are not in place? then again, its on the other side of the big Mad Max desert......maybe its just a big oversized Bartertown.

fredandwilma · Oct 20, 2014 4:51 pm

Yes its the wild west over here with no cooling off period and a dept of commerce that is a toothless tiger. We found out 2 days after accepting an offer that our selling agent had mislead us, withheld information from us, gave us a sales report that had 11 relavant sales deleted, and had not presented a written offer made earlier. We wanted to cancel the sale. 3 different lawyers said there was no way out and that we would be sued if we didnt settle. We had to sell and sue the agent for damages which was expensive, stressfull and time consuming. Even though there was a dispute they were able to take the commission because it was in their trust acc. If it was with a settlement agent we could have withheld it.

For the warranty wording, in the old days agents used to write special conditions such as

1. all plumbing is to be in working order prior to settlement.

Now some agents are writing it as

2. the seller warrants that all plumbing is to be in working order prior to settlement.

It seems a subtle change but the use of the word warrants effectively renders the condition meaningless.

When written as 1. the contractual condition is that the plumbing works. If it doesn't work settlement can be delayed and steps can be taken to cancel the contract, which of course also means that the agent doesn't get paid.

When written as 2. the contract condition is that the seller provides a warranty. So if the plumbing doesn't work, and the seller refuses to rectify it before settlement, there is no basis to delay settlement, retain funds or cancel the contract. The buyer must settle and then try and enforce the warranty through the courts, and of course get the repairs done. The condition when written this way does not give the buyer any real protection unless they are prepared for the time and cost involved in going to court. It simply ensures that the agent gets the commission without any delay or any involvement in any issues.

The solution is simple, delete the warranty wording so that settlement can be delayed until all issues are sorted out.

A couple of very expenisve lessons learnt over the years and the reason I always prefer to deal privately now.

Treeseachanger · Oct 20, 2014 7:30 pm

We had free advice from our conveyancer re the wording of the contract, which included a cooling off period.
We didn't have a problem. And the deposit was held in trust, our agent even invested it for us for a short time.

Seems like fredandwilma, you've had a very bad experience with a very very dishonest agent.

fredandwilma · Oct 20, 2014 11:55 pm

I'm sure there's some good ones, but it's hard to spot the dishonest ones until its too late. Both agents reported to dept of commerce, both still out there.

All I ever hear from settlement agents is 'we cant give legal advice'

qebtel · Oct 21, 2014 8:00 pm

fredandwilma

I'm sure there's some good ones, but it's hard to spot the dishonest ones until its too late. Both agents reported to dept of commerce, both still out there.

Hard to comment without knowing the specifics, but dealing with RE agents and paying them at their own game takes many years to master. Whether buying or selling, unless you know the tricks, always engage a solicitor to oversee both the contract of sale, and the terms of appointment the agents makes you sign with them. There are always a number of cluases that I delete or modify myself by default with those documents, they dont like it, but they cop it if they want my business.

Have you checked their code of conduct?
http://www.slp.wa.gov.au/pco/prod/FileS ... -a0-01.pdf

Then make a complaint if you have grounds
http://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/consumer- ... complaints

fredandwilma

All I ever hear from settlement agents is 'we cant give legal advice'

Thats because they are just appointment keepers, nothing more, they're not qualified legal practitioners. Nor is a conveyancer. A solicitor who specialises in conveyancing is qualified to give legal advice.

guedowar · Nov 19, 2015 1:39 pm

I recommend for selling your own property.
http://www.noagentproperty.com.au/

domwild · Jan 05, 2021 8:36 am

There is a site called RENTBETTER, which charges around $500 to list on realestate and domain and lots of free ones. I found tenants thru them, so I would only have to pay $350 to sell it myself. The first tenant ran a brothel in my house, but the second tenants are worth their weight in gold. When I wanted to report the brothel tenant to the database the rental agents keep, I was told that for privacy reasons I cannot do that, so the tenants rental agencies send you may still be criminals! Where a lot of money is at stake as in the real estate game, morality goes out the window!

I do not know how much Fleabay or Gumtree charge for ads. You can always try it yourself and if you are not successful, then get an agent and negotiate the commission with them.

Good points were made before re agents only opening houses for one or two hours, which is very convenient for them, but not for buyers having to rush around, so open it longer yourself or offer "By Appointment". Another question is why you have to sign an exclusive sales contract, does the agent believe you could also sell it yourself?

If your house is still lived in, then make sure children cannot "relocate" anything. My house will be empty as I have a newly built house to go to. My daughter's house in Melbourne was empty after tenants, so she paid a company $4,000 to temporarily put in fancy furniture and take professional photos.

What is very interesting is that as a seller I have to sign a "Property Condition Report" as part of the "Offer and Acceptance" claiming in gruesome detail everything is OK. The agent is not legally obliged to inform buyers that such a report is available for viewing! When I bought what later became a "brothel", I would have appreciated such a report as the condition of the house was not the best.