Browse Forums General Discussion Re: Builder denied the new home warranty for the leak on gar 21Feb 23, 2020 1:45 pm I also agree that they should provide photographic proof with references to the standards to show full compliance. Can you get up there and take your own photos to get a record of how it is now? I just had a look at the Huntley, do you know where it leaked from? I guessing it could be a pretty common design element that affects a few designs? You might need your own inspection of the area for a second opinion. Its surprising they don't see this a fault with their product and remediate it. Re: Builder denied the new home warranty for the leak on gar 22Feb 23, 2020 1:51 pm Rawson Homes clearly have a serious problem. I expect Daiwa House is deeply concerned about their failing investment in this builder, and its & their own reputations. HIA new homes starts data shows Rawson's sales in NSW & ACT declined from 1,001 starts in 2018 to 468 in 2019 (-533 starts or -53%). Source: HIA Housing 100 2018/19. Rawson's brazen contempt for their customers regarding post handover defects ,and their embarrassing obviously fabricated 'verified' 5 star online reviews have contributed to this debacle, I suggest. To recover I recommend Rawson takes this great opportunity to publicly do the right thing for westbourne and start improving their reputation. They may also consider checking and rectifying as required the roofs of the garages of the approx. 4,500 homes they have built over the past 7 years. This could demonstrate their commitment and start to rebuild some consumer trust.
Re: Builder denied the new home warranty for the leak on gar 23Feb 23, 2020 2:49 pm luxbuild I also agree that they should provide photographic proof with references to the standards to show full compliance. Can you get up there and take your own photos to get a record of how it is now? I just had a look at the Huntley, do you know where it leaked from? I guessing it could be a pretty common design element that affects a few designs? You might need your own inspection of the area for a second opinion. Its surprising they don't see this a fault with their product and remediate it. I personally would not get up on top of the roof to take photos, as soon as you do this they will claim you caused the problem by not walking in the correct areas. If you want to take photos and you probably should, do it from a ladder. Re: Builder denied the new home warranty for the leak on gar 24Feb 23, 2020 3:04 pm No one can really make an informed comment without inspecting it. I would get an independent inspector to give you an opinion. I once had a tenant who called me after a storm blew rain under the ridge capping so there was a leak down the middle of the house. Never leaked again in 15 years. So a leak is possible in a roof in certain conditions. Re: Builder denied the new home warranty for the leak on gar 25Feb 23, 2020 3:15 pm pulse Rawson homes experts have already inspected and they can make an informed comment, if they choose to. They need to validate their 'professional opinion' based on the specific provisions of the relevant standard (not avoiding this with generic fluff statements like "over 40 years experience in the building industry") . This factual validation would require about 15 minutes work. Any 'expert' asserting compliance must be able to demonstrate why. So far the Rawson responses have been inadequate, unprofessional and disrespectful. At this stage, I don't think it should be up to westbourne to spend $500+ and personal time organising another professional inspection.
Re: Builder denied the new home warranty for the leak on gar 26Feb 24, 2020 5:56 pm westbourne AS 1562.1 2018 section 3.3.1 states steel roofing shall provide water resistance and drainage when subject to a rainfall resulting from a storm having an average recurrence interval of 100 years based on meteorological data. Steel roofing needs to provide an effective seal against upward moving water from wind driven rain. This is achieved with suitable flashing designs in the critical locations (valley gutters, ridges and apron flashings, etc) and form fitting closed cell foam filler strips under the roof sheets to seal them (SA HB 39: 2015). https://www.bunnings.com.au/ormonoid-10 ... e_p1063471 If constructed properly to these Australian standards steel roofs will not leak. Based on yours and other members comments on multiple forums, it appears Rawson Homes and Daiwa House are demonstrating systemic contempt towards their customers as well as Australian building laws when asked appropriately to rectify their defective work and its resultant damage. As others have suggested, Rawson now have an opportunity to do the right thing and start to turn a negative perception into a positive, visible publicly. Re: Builder denied the new home warranty for the leak on gar 27Feb 25, 2020 12:11 am SaveH2O westbourne The construction manager of Rawson Home responded my leak report. "Rawson take your feedback very seriously, the storm that went through Sydney on Sunday 9th of February was a major storm event of unprecedented fury not seen in Sydney since the early 1990s , I also inspected the roof and all associated flashings and agree with Mr Laings comments, as you could appreciate no builder could design homes against such extreme weather conditions, That is a load of garbage. So he is effectively saying that every house in your area would have suffered similar water damage! He also has a short memory. https://www.smh.com.au/environment/sydn ... lpzkd.html Weather patterns have changed in recent years and will continue to do so, this is no secret. Builders must meet their social responsibility and expected professional standards by designing houses that are climate suitable. The fact is, the roof needs repairs/modifications so that the roof is able to withstand bad weather that will happen again and again and who knows when that will be but he has wiped his hands of responsibility which now makes you wait who knows how long for those necessary repairs/modifications. Head of Construction replied my email below. "Please see below detail showing what we have constructed at your home. This is directly from Department of Fair Trading details showing we have completed the roof flashings correctly. To answer your question No, you will not have to contact your insurance every time you get a storm as it will not leak under normal storms. What we encountered recently was a rain cell that we have not seen in 30 years and homes that never leaked before leaked. The rain intensity was more than many houses were designed for." The diagram shows no complete seal on the color bond roof. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Builder denied the new home warranty for the leak on gar 28Feb 25, 2020 12:17 am forrestmount luxbuild I also agree that they should provide photographic proof with references to the standards to show full compliance. Can you get up there and take your own photos to get a record of how it is now? I just had a look at the Huntley, do you know where it leaked from? I guessing it could be a pretty common design element that affects a few designs? You might need your own inspection of the area for a second opinion. Its surprising they don't see this a fault with their product and remediate it. I personally would not get up on top of the roof to take photos, as soon as you do this they will claim you caused the problem by not walking in the correct areas. If you want to take photos and you probably should, do it from a ladder. I went up the roof to see where the leak was. The roof has no damage at all. I was told by the building inspector there is no complete seal on the color bond roof. Head of Construction sent me the diagram showing the roof design. Garage color bond roofLike ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Builder denied the new home warranty for the leak on gar 29Feb 25, 2020 12:27 am forrestmount I would not just contact your insurance company, lodge a complaint with the relevant watchdog, it won’t help today but it will be a record if needed in the future. You will still need to go though your insurance as it everyone will take the points provided by your builder as fact. They inspected the property and they believe the work is satisfactory. The storm was a major event with wind driven rain and not likely to occur again for a number of years. Both points will remain factorial unless a more common rain event causes leaks. Until then for some reason both you and your insurance company are out of pocket and inconvenienced. For some context A work colleague just finished a house with over ground flooding due to what I consider a poor design of the driveway they all the water was intentionally diverted towards a drain beside the house rather than away from the house. The first rain event they were told the same thing “ big storm, lots of water”. Funny enough the second rain event a week later “ big storm lots of water”. Thanks for your feedback. Head of Construction replied my email below. Head of Construction replied my email below. "Please see below detail showing what we have constructed at your home. This is directly from Department of Fair Trading details showing we have completed the roof flashings correctly. To answer your question No, you will not have to contact your insurance every time you get a storm as it will not leak under normal storms. What we encountered recently was a rain cell that we have not seen in 30 years and homes that never leaked before leaked. The rain intensity was more than many houses were designed for." The diagram shows no complete seal on the color bond roof. Garage color bond roof designwater go through from red arrowLike ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Builder denied the new home warranty for the leak on gar 30Feb 25, 2020 2:43 am So wouldn't it be prudent to have a bead of sealant where your arrow is? If you look at the Fair trading document they've taken this from: Image 8.06 and 8.07 surely you'd require sealant to prevent that leaking if you have some wind driving it up roofing channel? Re: Builder denied the new home warranty for the leak on gar 31Feb 25, 2020 7:32 am luxbuild So wouldn't it be prudent to have a bead of sealant where your arrow is? If you look at the Fair trading document they've taken this from: Image 8.06 and 8.07 surely you'd require sealant to prevent that leaking if you have some wind driving it up roofing channel? I I was a betting person, I would take a punt on the actual profile of the sheet being “upside down” The image shows a high edge closest to the wall. I think the opposite is more likely to be the case. This would explain how “wind driven rain” could enter. Re: Builder denied the new home warranty for the leak on gar 32Feb 25, 2020 8:02 am westbourne the Australian standards clearly require the roof to be sealed against upwards wind driven rain. If Rawson Homes have omitted the foam sealing the roof does not these meet standards and is defective. The NSWDFT guide diagram is not the standards document and just indicates the basic construction method. Ask Rawson Homes to reference the correct standards documents and sections in their response, assuming they have ready access to these. If they don’t have professional access to the building standards then they have a much bigger problem! In the standards documents Rawson will find references to the sealing materials and pictures of compliant installation Including these on metal roofs. If you interpret and quote standards you need to actually reference them. Should be quick and easy for Rawson Homes to do this for you. If they have difficulty with this they can easily ask the HIA's technical manager for assistance. It’s unlikely an insurance company will approve a claim for your defective building works. They are on to this cost shifting game. Rawson Homes is either incompetent and does not understand Australian building standards or they are simply trying to bluff you, like they have done previously to many other customers to manage their costs and the maintain the top insurance rating they promote. A quick scan of product review’s Q&A indicates this behaviour is most likely to be the case. Don’t accept this rubbish from Rawson. Based on their responses you have shared, its likely all their other roofs have also omitted the required sealing foam and will also leak with wind driven rain. Wisdom homes will be liable to correct these defects and pay for the damage that occurs. I suggest Rawsons customers check their own roofs carefully for the missing weather seals that Rawson asserts is normal. Re: Builder denied the new home warranty for the leak on gar 33Feb 25, 2020 10:39 am They have now given you two bits of useful information. - They have now stated what their design is (or is meant to be) and its that of the default standards. - They have now stated it wont happen again in a normal rain event. (If it happens again its clearly their fault. ) What about hiring a third party inspector to compare your design vs that of the standards that they provided. If there is a deviation then you've got them. And you can send them a bill for the third party inspection too. Re: Builder denied the new home warranty for the leak on gar 34Feb 25, 2020 10:54 am Note Rawson Homes has not yet provided sufficient details of the AS 1562.1 2018 section 3.3.1 standards. If they check these standards they will confirm their work on this roof as well as their standard design is not compliant. The NSWDFT guide picture Rawson has provided is not the standards document above. I believe they are using this picture inappropriately and as a misleading bluffing tactic to try and avoid their responsibility to rectify many customers’ non compliant and defective works. Re: Builder denied the new home warranty for the leak on gar 35Feb 25, 2020 1:18 pm The National Construction Code (NCC) is a 3 part performance based legislated publication comprising the Building Code of Australia (Parts 1 & 2) and the Plumbing Code of Australia (Part 3). Being the primary document, the NCC has hierarchy over referenced Australian Standards. If the Australian Standards cannot meet a NCC minimum mandatory Performance Requirement, then a certified Performance Solution must be used to meet that requirement. The NCC Part 2 under Part 3.5.1 Sheet Roofing states: Appropriate Performance Requirements Where an alternative roof cladding is proposed as a Performance Solution to that described in Part 3.5.1, that proposal must comply with— (a) Performance Requirement P2.1.1; and (b) Performance Requirement P2.2.2; and (c) the relevant Performance Requirements determined in accordance with A2.2(3) and A2.4(3) as applicable. P2.1.1 Structural stability and resistance states: (a) A building or structure, during construction and use, with appropriate degrees of reliability, must— (i) perform adequately under all reasonably expected design actions; and (ii) withstand extreme or frequently repeated design actions; and (iii) be designed to sustain local damage, with the structural system as a whole remaining stable and not being damaged to an extent disproportionate to the original local damage; and (iv) avoid causing damage to other properties, by resisting the actions to which it may reasonably be expected to be subjected. (b) The actions to be considered to satisfy (a) include but are not limited to— (i) permanent actions (dead loads); and (ii) imposed actions (live loads arising from occupancy and use); and (iii) wind action; and (iv) earthquake action; and (v) snow action; and (vi) liquid pressure action; and (vii) ground water action; and (viii) rainwater action (including ponding action); and (x) differential movement; and (xi) time dependent effects (including creep and shrinkage); and (xii) thermal effects; and (xiii) ground movement caused by— (A) swelling, shrinkage or freezing of the subsoil; and (B) landslip or subsidence; and (C) siteworks associated with the building or structure; and (xiv) construction activity actions; and (xv) termite actions. P2.2.2 Weatherproofing states: A roof and external wall (including openings around windows and doors) must prevent the penetration of water that could cause— (a) unhealthy or dangerous conditions, or loss of amenity for occupants; and (b) undue dampness or deterioration of building elements. Sydney is in the Region A Wind Zone with an Ultimate Regional Wind Speed of 162 km/h as stated in AS/NZS 1170.2:2011 (R2016). The highest recorded wind speeds at different locales on 9 February 2020 are shown below: Sydney Airport 94.3 km/h. Parramatta 81.4 km/h. North Head 107 km/h. Fort Denison 102 km/h. Bankstown 82 km/h. Homebush 82 km/h. As per the above, I believe that the roof has failed the minimum Performance Requirement of the NCC. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Builder denied the new home warranty for the leak on gar 36Feb 26, 2020 10:22 am SaveH2O The National Construction Code (NCC) is a 3 part performance based legislated publication comprising the Building Code of Australia (Parts 1 & 2) and the Plumbing Code of Australia (Part 3). Being the primary document, the NCC has hierarchy over referenced Australian Standards. If the Australian Standards cannot meet a NCC minimum mandatory Performance Requirement, then a certified Performance Solution must be used to meet that requirement. The NCC Part 2 under Part 3.5.1 Sheet Roofing states: Appropriate Performance Requirements Where an alternative roof cladding is proposed as a Performance Solution to that described in Part 3.5.1, that proposal must comply with— (a) Performance Requirement P2.1.1; and (b) Performance Requirement P2.2.2; and (c) the relevant Performance Requirements determined in accordance with A2.2(3) and A2.4(3) as applicable. P2.1.1 Structural stability and resistance states: (a) A building or structure, during construction and use, with appropriate degrees of reliability, must— (i) perform adequately under all reasonably expected design actions; and (ii) withstand extreme or frequently repeated design actions; and (iii) be designed to sustain local damage, with the structural system as a whole remaining stable and not being damaged to an extent disproportionate to the original local damage; and (iv) avoid causing damage to other properties, by resisting the actions to which it may reasonably be expected to be subjected. (b) The actions to be considered to satisfy (a) include but are not limited to— (i) permanent actions (dead loads); and (ii) imposed actions (live loads arising from occupancy and use); and (iii) wind action; and (iv) earthquake action; and (v) snow action; and (vi) liquid pressure action; and (vii) ground water action; and (viii) rainwater action (including ponding action); and (x) differential movement; and (xi) time dependent effects (including creep and shrinkage); and (xii) thermal effects; and (xiii) ground movement caused by— (A) swelling, shrinkage or freezing of the subsoil; and (B) landslip or subsidence; and (C) siteworks associated with the building or structure; and (xiv) construction activity actions; and (xv) termite actions. P2.2.2 Weatherproofing states: A roof and external wall (including openings around windows and doors) must prevent the penetration of water that could cause— (a) unhealthy or dangerous conditions, or loss of amenity for occupants; and (b) undue dampness or deterioration of building elements. Sydney is in the Region A Wind Zone with an Ultimate Regional Wind Speed of 162 km/h as stated in AS/NZS 1170.2:2011 (R2016). The highest recorded wind speeds at different locales on 9 February 2020 are shown below: Sydney Airport 94.3 km/h. Parramatta 81.4 km/h. North Head 107 km/h. Fort Denison 102 km/h. Bankstown 82 km/h. Homebush 82 km/h. As per the above, I believe that the roof has failed the minimum Performance Requirement of the NCC. Agreed with you. The roof was not damage at all and the rain poured down from the roof like a shower. The leak is apparently due to construction design which cannot withstand a heavy thunder storm. Who should take the responsibility, Rawson builder or home owner? Should the leak and ceiling damage be take care by the builder under new home warranty? Re: Builder denied the new home warranty for the leak on gar 37Feb 26, 2020 10:50 am westbourne Rawson Homes is legally obligated to rectify their non compliant and therefore defective roof, and to fix all the damage it has caused. This is required on your house, as well as all other houses they have built covered by their warranty. Rawson have confirmed to you in writing the roof on your house is their standard design. Without the appropriate weather sealing their standard roof design is non compliant to Australian standards and the NCC and as such is defective. It’s likely Rawson’s other customers’ standard design roofs will also leak under heavy wind driven rain. Re: Builder denied the new home warranty for the leak on gar 38Feb 26, 2020 11:45 am westbourne Should the leak and ceiling damage be take care by the builder under new home warranty? The roof has failed the NCC Performance Requirements as previously posted. Rawson Homes has stated that the roof is compliant to the Australian Standards BUT the NCC Performance Requirements have hierarchy over the Australian Standards. Rawson Homes should know this. Rawson Homes have delivered a faulty product and it is the responsibility of Rawson Homes to fix the fault so it satisfies the Performance Requirements found in the NCC. I hope that Rawson Homes extends this to also repairing all damage caused. The NCC is administered by the Australian Building Control Board (ABCB) and the link below is a page on the ABCB website that explains hierarchy. https://ncc.abcb.gov.au/ncc-online/How-it-works 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Builder denied the new home warranty for the leak on gar 39Feb 29, 2020 12:01 am SaveH2O westbourne Should the leak and ceiling damage be take care by the builder under new home warranty? The roof has failed the NCC Performance Requirements as previously posted. Rawson Homes has stated that the roof is compliant to the Australian Standards BUT the NCC Performance Requirements have hierarchy over the Australian Standards. Rawson Homes should know this. Rawson Homes have delivered a faulty product and it is the responsibility of Rawson Homes to fix the fault so it satisfies the Performance Requirements found in the NCC. I hope that Rawson Homes extends this to also repairing all damage caused. The NCC is administered by the Australian Building Control Board (ABCB) and the link below is a page on the ABCB website that explains hierarchy. https://ncc.abcb.gov.au/ncc-online/How-it-works Appreciate your helpful comments and given me useful information. Head of Construction finally said "I will look at getting the sealing of the flashings improved over the garage and gyprock ceiling under garage roof rectified and painted." Re: Builder denied the new home warranty for the leak on gar 40Feb 29, 2020 12:02 am Norfolk @westbourne Rawson Homes is legally obligated to rectify their non compliant and therefore defective roof, and to fix all the damage it has caused. This is required on your house, as well as all other houses they have built covered by their warranty. Rawson have confirmed to you in writing the roof on your house is their standard design. Without the appropriate weather sealing their standard roof design is non compliant to Australian standards and the NCC and as such is defective. It’s likely Rawson’s other customers’ standard design roofs will also leak under heavy wind driven rain. Appreciate your helpful comments and given me useful information. Head of Construction finally said "I will look at getting the sealing of the flashings improved over the garage and gyprock ceiling under garage roof rectified and painted." If you make sure all taps inside and out are turned off, what does the water meter show if you leave it for a while. 2 16227 Hi all, I am hoping someone has some ideas as to what is causing my bathroom leak. The leaking appears to mainly happen when we turn the sink basins on. It takes a while… 0 4026 DIY, Home Maintenance & Repair Are you doing this with a building permit? Conversion of a non habitable room into a habitable room requires building permit. 3 13421 |