It's a game of pass the parcel to those involved... and sorry to say the client always ends up it/paying.
Browse Forums General Discussion Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 41Nov 08, 2019 9:46 am sunny74 Just feels like I’m going around in circles... It's a game of pass the parcel to those involved... and sorry to say the client always ends up it/paying. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 42Nov 08, 2019 9:54 am chippy Thanks for putting up the plans. It makes it far easier to understand what has gone on. My next question is, who built the wall that the cabinetry sits against? I assume it's a butler's pantry with the cavity slider in it? Correct, the builder built those walls. It would appear that it has been built to the incorrect size. The butler's pantry is 150mm deeper and 250mm shorter that the architect plans. Plot thickens.. If that wall was already there and the cabinet maker has done his site measure then he has to fit to what's there. Cabinet makers always have to do a site measure before they start just to make sure they build to what's there. Yes, fair enough. Realistically I'd assume that this would have been picked up that it was different from the architect plans at that point but someone (architect or builder) has decided to run with what was already built. Yes it appears all 3 were aware there was some confusion, this is where the electrician and plumber installed lights and piping in wrong spots... Now the challenge will be to find out who made the decision to make that change. Did the architect decide on the fly to change that dimension or did the builder just build the walls in the wrong spot. Yes, wouldn’t this change have to be put in writing somewhere and then be seen as variation, any idea who’s job it would have been to do that? Thanks so much, it’s all suck a pain after and 18 month process Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 43Nov 08, 2019 10:12 am StructuralBIMGuy sunny74 building-expert It seems your legal advice is correct but before commencing proceedings I would get in touch with architect's professional indemnity insurer and make a claim directly. It is likely they will want to avoid legal costs just the same as you and you might get an offer of settlement. Cheers Great idea, many thanks. You will be very disappointed with what will be on offer to settle the dispute with the Architects insurers..unfortunately cabinets don't rank high Keep us posted Very negative from you, perhaps you can support what you say from your own bitter experience, if so would you like to share it. My experience is different, some years ago I was involved in a building dispute and architect and builder were joined in VCAT proceedings. The dispute was settled in mediation. My lady client got 40k from architects insurer, 20 k from the builder but then was ripped off by her lawyer 40k. "Such is life- Ned Kelly" Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 44Nov 08, 2019 10:24 am sunny74 The cupboards in the hallway were meant to be approx 300 mm deeper and that would put them in line with cupboards on other side of that nib ( we wanted very deep storage cupboards here). Unfortunately, that desire is not reflected in either of the drawings. The architect drawings show them as 640mm deep. Is that what they ended up being? Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 45Nov 08, 2019 10:28 am arcadelt sunny74 The cupboards in the hallway were meant to be approx 300 mm deeper and that would put them in line with cupboards on other side of that nib ( we wanted very deep storage cupboards here). Unfortunately, that desire is not reflected in either of the drawings. The architect drawings show them as 640mm deep. Is that what they ended up being? If I put a measuring tape in the hallway cupboard off the pantry it’s about 560mm deep plus the door about 20mm Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 46Nov 08, 2019 10:31 am sunny74 If I put a measuring tape in the hallway cupboard off the pantry it’s about 560mm deep plus the door about 20mm 640mm must apply to the oven tower then, and the cupboard down the hallway just conform because of the wall behind them. In any case, the cause of the problem you are concerned about is the approximately 300mm change in depth of the pantry. Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 47Nov 08, 2019 10:34 am arcadelt sunny74 If I put a measuring tape in the hallway cupboard off the pantry it’s about 560mm deep plus the door about 20mm 640mm must apply to the oven tower then, and the cupboard down the hallway just conform because of the wall behind them. In any case, the cause of the problem you are concerned about is the approximately 300mm change in depth of the pantry. The problem is the cupboards don’t line up down the hall. The cupboards don’t have the depth we asked for. The island bench is not as wide as we wanted or paid for. The kitchen job working space is I assume 300mm small aswell , that whole back of the kitchen anyways etc etc Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 48Nov 08, 2019 10:35 am arcadelt sunny74 If I put a measuring tape in the hallway cupboard off the pantry it’s about 560mm deep plus the door about 20mm 640mm must apply to the oven tower then, and the cupboard down the hallway just conform because of the wall behind them. In any case, the cause of the problem you are concerned about is the approximately 300mm change in depth of the pantry. Yes over tower is 640 Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 49Nov 08, 2019 10:36 am sunny74 The problem is the cupboards don’t line up down the hall. The cupboards don’t have the depth we asked for. The island bench is not as wide as we wanted or paid for. The kitchen job working space is I assume 300mm small aswell , that whole back of the kitchen anyways etc etc I get that, but I'm explaining why. If you work out why the pantry is 300mm shorter, then you can figure out who is responsible. Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 50Nov 08, 2019 11:03 am arcadelt sunny74 The problem is the cupboards don’t line up down the hall. The cupboards don’t have the depth we asked for. The island bench is not as wide as we wanted or paid for. The kitchen job working space is I assume 300mm small aswell , that whole back of the kitchen anyways etc etc I get that, but I'm explaining why. If you work out why the pantry is 300mm shorter, then you can figure out who is responsible. Great, have measured the pantry and you are correct. The wall has been built approx 250mm shorter than the plans. Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 51Nov 08, 2019 11:12 am It all comes back to the walls of the butler's pantry. They are built in the wrong place and it's all flowed from there. I'm a carpenter who also has a cabinet making workshop. If I'm building cabinetry for a builder I'd initially quote on the supplied plans. When it comes time to actually build the cabinetry you go on site and do a check measure so you are building too what is actually there. If I had been building your cabinetry, once I realised that the walls that have been built didn't match the plans I would have gone back to the builder to find out why. I can only assume they would have done that, but maybe not. Ultimately the cabinet maker has built the cabinetry to suit the walls that are already there, and has then made the kitchen to suit. The question again is who allowed for the variation in the walls Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 53Nov 08, 2019 11:48 am chippy It all comes back to the walls of the butler's pantry. They are built in the wrong place and it's all flowed from there. I'm a carpenter who also has a cabinet making workshop. If I'm building cabinetry for a builder I'd initially quote on the supplied plans. When it comes time to actually build the cabinetry you go on site and do a check measure so you are building too what is actually there. If I had been building your cabinetry, once I realised that the walls that have been built didn't match the plans I would have gone back to the builder to find out why. I can only assume they would have done that, but maybe not. Ultimately the cabinet maker has built the cabinetry to suit the walls that are already there, and has then made the kitchen to suit. The question again is who allowed for the variation in the walls Yep thanks so much. We are going back to the builder now to ask his side. The architect said “ On the floor plan the kitchen and adjacent hall cupboard does not line up with the bedroom wing corridor. Also the hall cupboard does not line up with the adjacent door opening“ This is correct but disingenuous as the kitchen and adjacent hall cupboards themselves are meant to line up. The architect must feel they are involved otherwise they would have just straight out blamed the builder? Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 54Nov 08, 2019 11:59 am sunny74 chippy It all comes back to the walls of the butler's pantry. They are built in the wrong place and it's all flowed from there. I'm a carpenter who also has a cabinet making workshop. If I'm building cabinetry for a builder I'd initially quote on the supplied plans. When it comes time to actually build the cabinetry you go on site and do a check measure so you are building too what is actually there. If I had been building your cabinetry, once I realised that the walls that have been built didn't match the plans I would have gone back to the builder to find out why. I can only assume they would have done that, but maybe not. Ultimately the cabinet maker has built the cabinetry to suit the walls that are already there, and has then made the kitchen to suit. The question again is who allowed for the variation in the walls Yep thanks so much. We are going back to the builder now to ask his side. The architect said “ On the floor plan the kitchen and adjacent hall cupboard does not line up with the bedroom wing corridor. Also the hall cupboard does not line up with the adjacent door opening“ This is correct but disingenuous as the kitchen and adjacent hall cupboards themselves are meant to line up. The architect must feel they are involved otherwise they would have just straight out blamed the builder? Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 55Nov 08, 2019 12:28 pm sunny74 sunny74 chippy It all comes back to the walls of the butler's pantry. They are built in the wrong place and it's all flowed from there. I'm a carpenter who also has a cabinet making workshop. If I'm building cabinetry for a builder I'd initially quote on the supplied plans. When it comes time to actually build the cabinetry you go on site and do a check measure so you are building too what is actually there. If I had been building your cabinetry, once I realised that the walls that have been built didn't match the plans I would have gone back to the builder to find out why. I can only assume they would have done that, but maybe not. Ultimately the cabinet maker has built the cabinetry to suit the walls that are already there, and has then made the kitchen to suit. The question again is who allowed for the variation in the walls Yep thanks so much. We are going back to the builder now to ask his side. The architect said “ On the floor plan the kitchen and adjacent hall cupboard does not line up with the bedroom wing corridor. Also the hall cupboard does not line up with the adjacent door opening“ This is correct but disingenuous as the kitchen and adjacent hall cupboards themselves are meant to line up. The architect must feel they are involved otherwise they would have just straight out blamed the builder? Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Yep. Walls to pantry are built wrong. If you can get to the bottom on who did it or approved it you will have the answer as to who to go after. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 56Nov 08, 2019 12:49 pm And, it's an extremely expensive mistake or deviation so I would expect whoever is responsible will fight it tooth and nail to not have to rectify it or will just offer a cash settlement. To build it to the plans now, involves structural, plaster, flooring, paint and all new cabinetry. $$$$$ Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 57Nov 08, 2019 12:58 pm chippy And, it's an extremely expensive mistake or deviation so I would expect whoever is responsible will fight it tooth and nail to not have to rectify it or will just offer a cash settlement. To build it to the plans now, involves structural, plaster, flooring, paint and all new cabinetry. $$$$$ Thanks so much Chippy, just want what we were shown and paid for as the end product ie don’t want to do anyone over. Guess they will have to weight up legal costs compared to cost of repairs Once again that’s me for your help clearing it up, if ever in Noosa give us a shout and will take you out for a few beers! Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 58Nov 08, 2019 1:14 pm Noosa is one of my favourite places. Might take you up some day.😀 Good luck with it all. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 59Nov 11, 2019 11:18 am chippy It all comes back to the walls of the butler's pantry. They are built in the wrong place and it's all flowed from there. Ok I’ve done some more work and got plans off the council. The wall in the pantry has been correctly built to the floor plan but not to the architects kitchen detail plan. I'm a carpenter who also has a cabinet making workshop. If I'm building cabinetry for a builder I'd initially quote on the supplied plans. When it comes time to actually build the cabinetry you go on site and do a check measure so you are building too what is actually there. The cabinet maker then seems to have built the cabinetry to part of the kitchen detail plan and partly not to. If I had been building your cabinetry, once I realised that the walls that have been built didn't match the plans I would have gone back to the builder to find out why. I can only assume they would have done that, but maybe not. Yes there was some discussion here but not involving us, all we were told was the kitchen hob workbench would be slightly smaller and we figured that’s because we bought the largest induction cooktop. Ultimately the cabinet maker has built the cabinetry to suit the walls that are already there, and has then made the kitchen to suit. The question again is who allowed for the variation in the walls It seems the architects kitchen detail plan not lining up with her floor plan is the issue , but yes there is no variations on price or anything... Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 60Nov 11, 2019 11:59 am Hi Sunny The only thing I don't understand about that is that the carpenters that framed up the house would have used the floor plan for all dimensions. I'm assuming that they built the walls of the pantry and not the cabinet maker. So technically all the walls should have been built in the correct position as per the correct floor plans and the cabinet maker would have built to those. Unless the walls to the pantry are part of the cabinetry, then I can see how a difference in the floor plan and cabinet detail would have caught them out. What ever the case, I'd be 100% sure a conversation was had about the difference in the two sets of plans. If I was the cabinet maker I would of been asking the builder why there was a difference. If I was the builder, I would of been asking the architect why the difference. I'm starting to think that the Architect has made a mistake and then has likely made a decision on the fly that is now coming back to bite them on the bum. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Your build is relatively simple, I believe your job can be easily done by a good building designer, you really do not need to pay for the architect. Remember, architect's… 3 10984 I've just had a look at the website. The company are just building broker's. There are plenty of similar companies that basically draw your plans (they own them so you… 8 10919 Really tight at the top of the stairs- how to get furniture into those rooms? Study books - does anyone really use them these days? Large storage closet would be more functional. 2 6884 |