Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Oct 28, 2019 6:03 am Hi All Just completed our build using an architect and master builder. The plans ended up being sent to 5 builders to quote on, every builder got the same plans. What has happened is the cabinet maker has built the kitchen approx. 30cm smaller in width ways than what was on the contract drawings. This means our island bench and cabinetry does not line up at all, in fact we had an architect friend visit yesterday and they picked it straight away. We spoke with the architect and they said if we wanted it fixed we would have to pay, we signed off on the cabinet makers drawings as the architect had inspected them and was with us when we signed them. To fix will mean to pull the whole kitchen out. We have been to a solicitor who is thinking we will be suing the architect for breach of duties and then the builder who in turn will sue the cabinet maker for breach of contract. Nobody will take ownership, we paid for a full size kitchen as well as paying an architect to design and manage. Does any body have any advice on how we can solve this easier than taking everyone to court, the building and planning phase already took 18 months of our lives? The build is in sunshine coast queensland Many thanks Sunny Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 2Oct 28, 2019 6:26 am That’s so frustrating! Can you live with it though? It seems a lot of hassle to get it fixed! Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 3Oct 28, 2019 6:44 am sunny74 To fix will mean to pull the whole kitchen out. It would be interesting to see pictures and plans. Kitchen construction is quite modular, and fully acknowledging that I haven’t seen exactly what you have, I'm doubtful that the entire kitchen would need to be disassembled. Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 4Oct 28, 2019 8:21 am arcadelt sunny74 To fix will mean to pull the whole kitchen out. It would be interesting to see pictures and plans. Kitchen construction is quite modular, and fully acknowledging that I haven’t seen exactly what you have, I'm doubtful that the entire kitchen would need to be disassembled. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Hi pictures attached... as hopefully you can see the architect designed a spine hallway through the house, all walls, cupboards, rammed earth walls are in line. They you but the kitchen where it is 30cm shorter. He plans given to builders had the kitchen and island bench all lined up with this spine and this is what we had every body quote on. We’ve ended up with a kitchen that is shorter on bench space and cupboards and appears to be cavernous as the job where the rangehood and cooktop is smaller than what it was designed to be and what was priced on?? Everybody is blaming each other and then us for signing off on cabinetry. We employed a master builder and an architect due to their supposed professionalism, the cabinetry drawings alike have probably 500 dimensions, we employed these people as we aren’t builders although we did sign off on cabinetry. There was no discussion to make the kitchen smaller at any stage. Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 5Oct 28, 2019 8:25 am Hillsbuilds That’s so frustrating! Can you live with it though? It seems a lot of hassle to get it fixed! It’s still a kitchen but it’s less practical, looks unsightly and isn’t what we paid for so we just want what we paid for Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 6Oct 28, 2019 9:15 am sunny74 Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ We employed a master builder and an architect due to their supposed professionalism, the cabinetry drawings alike have probably 500 dimensions, we employed these people as we aren’t builders although we did sign off on cabinetry. There was no discussion to make the kitchen smaller at any stage. That is an expensive build and you didn't get what you paid for. On another note, There are tens of thousands of Apartment owners that would love to Sue their apartment architects and builders but can't. Your case is cut and dry.... Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 7Oct 28, 2019 12:02 pm sunny74 Hillsbuilds That’s so frustrating! Can you live with it though? It seems a lot of hassle to get it fixed! It’s still a kitchen but it’s less practical, looks unsightly and isn’t what we paid for so we just want what we paid for Yeah, I totally get that. Best of luck, hope you get a satisfactory resolution! Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 8Oct 28, 2019 4:42 pm sunny74 arcadelt sunny74 To fix will mean to pull the whole kitchen out. It would be interesting to see pictures and plans. Kitchen construction is quite modular, and fully acknowledging that I haven’t seen exactly what you have, I'm doubtful that the entire kitchen would need to be disassembled. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Hi pictures attached... as hopefully you can see the architect designed a spine hallway through the house, all walls, cupboards, rammed earth walls are in line. They you but the kitchen where it is 30cm shorter. He plans given to builders had the kitchen and island bench all lined up with this spine and this is what we had every body quote on. We’ve ended up with a kitchen that is shorter on bench space and cupboards and appears to be cavernous as the job where the rangehood and cooktop is smaller than what it was designed to be and what was priced on?? Everybody is blaming each other and then us for signing off on cabinetry. We employed a master builder and an architect due to their supposed professionalism, the cabinetry drawings alike have probably 500 dimensions, we employed these people as we aren’t builders although we did sign off on cabinetry. There was no discussion to make the kitchen smaller at any stage. Sunny Sorry to see the screw up. There is actually a pretty simple fix which i am surprised that no one has mentioned to you. That whole row of cupboards can be moved over 300mm to the left to line up with the hallway and the joiner can either add another draw or simply widen the draws underneath the stove by 300mm to give you a large pot drawer. you will need to extend the bench top as well but this shouldnt cost too much, Definitely less than lawyers fees. My guess is circa $2k good luck Simeon McGovern Affordable Custom Homes, We design and build to your budget Ashington Homes www.ashingtonhomes.com.au Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 9Oct 28, 2019 5:14 pm Hi Sejaed Unfortunately it's not that easy. If it's done properly. To move the oven stack and all the cabinetry behind it over means that the drawer banks under the hotplate need to be widened, so does the top and overheads. Then the splashback needs to be redone. Then the island also needs to be lengthened to match. It's a very expensive mistake. I do have a number of questions that would need to be answered before I'd start apportioning blame but I can understand no one wanting to put up their hand to take ownership of the mistake. It may not be all the cabinet makers fault. On a side note. It's good to hear you had a resolution with your place. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 10Oct 28, 2019 7:13 pm Yes Chippy is right unfortunately... The architect did try and say that was a solution but it would be at our cost as well. essentially the whole kitchen from the LHS of fridge and the island bench will need to be removed and a new one installed. I heard from Queensland architect board today who are also going to follow it up, they said they cant understand how its gotten to this point and why someones insurance hasn't covered it.... Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 11Oct 29, 2019 9:10 am sunny74 essentially the whole kitchen from the LHS of fridge and the island bench will need to be removed and a new one installed. To my eye, the bigger issue is the lack of symmetry between the left and right towers marked in green in the attached photo. That could be easily fixed by widening the left tower, and that would bring it back in line with the hallway boundary - perhaps not completely depending on dimensions, but would go some way to fixing your concerns and fix the asymmetry. You don’t show the right side of the island circled in red, but I would then match the new kitchen dimension by moving the island to the left, extended the benchtop of the island and match the waterfall on the left with one on the right too. You could fill the difference underneath with additional drawers or cupboards. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 12Nov 06, 2019 10:31 pm Ok, coming in from a recent new build. After the build we have what they call a handover inspection. Up until you then the property is under the builders ownership and responsibility. So after the build, the owners go in and inspect the completion with a copy of the ans and contract in hand. You point out every fault on the inspection plan. The builder then gets that copy and must either fix or reply based on what you have on your contract. Once satisfied you then sign over the contract that you are happy and its yours. I assume the same in principle happens there. So my question is did you notice this at the final inspection or afterwards. It appears fine to me and in proportion. If you are talking disproportionate why have the wide drawers in front of the narrow pantry and not in front of the wide pantry. That to me (and my opinion) would look better. I'll give you two examples we had. 1. A bathroom wall was to be solid brick. All 4 sides needed to be solid brick. They weren't so they demolished the walls and rebuilt it. Then re presented the house for inspection. 2. The 3 bathrooms had a shower recess (for shampoo bottles etc) they were on the plans as 600mm x 400mm x 20mm. Each one was not that and ranged up to 60mm different. Meaning shampoo bottles didn't fit. They pointed to the wording in the contract that said that there is a variance of up to 50mm due to materials variability. We lost that argument. Even though the drawings stated the dimensions. Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 13Nov 07, 2019 7:42 pm If you have engaged an architect for the design but not for the contract supervision and administration then you have missed the beat. I expect that a competent architect will pick up this kind of mistake and order the builder to demolish and rebuild but if architect is not supervising who will. Furthermore, architectural contracts have greater control over the build than industry building contracts.What type of contract have you signed? Regardless of all of the above, if the plans are correct then the builder is at fault. Builder is in charge, builder is the captain, builder has your money. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 14Nov 07, 2019 8:31 pm building-expert If you have engaged an architect for the design but not for the contract supervision and administration then you have missed the beat. Hi Building expert and thanks Architect was engaged for sketch design, design development, construction documentation and contract administration Specifically stating and included expense would be a major change beyond approved sketches. CA includes monthly meetings with builder and client, defects inspections at completion and asses builders progress claims and variations. Essentially we paid architect full fee for full services on advice from them for a seamless build. I expect that a competent architect will pick up this kind of mistake and order the builder to demolish and rebuild but if architect is not supervising who will. We picked up the mistake as soon as we noticed it and other architects who are friends of ours saw it as soon as they walked in. As soon as we notified the architect they made a site visit and said they understand why we would be disappointed and it’s cra$$y although we would be paying for any changes to remedy it they have accepted no responsibility other than blame us for signing off on the cabinet makers drawings which are different to theirs. Furthermore, architectural contracts have greater control over the build than industry building contracts.What type of contract have you signed? Unsure what type of contract it is... assume it’s a fairly regular type. Regardless of all of the above, if the plans are correct then the builder is at fault. Builder is in charge, builder is the captain, builder has your money. Problem is the builder, electrician and plumber worked off one set of drawings and the cabinet maker worked off another set. Neither the cabinet maker, builder or architect is accepting any responsibility. We have had preliminary discussions with boaq, qbcc and a solicitor. Any other parties you know who can help resolve this by chance. Qbcc will be in builders favour and boaq will be in architects. Cabinet maker is meeting us next week so will see what they have to say. We have everything documented and ready to fire off after the meeting. Is there a quick and easy solution to get someone to jump through the hoops rather than us? Thanks Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 15Nov 07, 2019 8:51 pm michaelyoni64 Ok, coming in from a recent new build. After the build we have what they call a handover inspection. Up until you then the property is under the builders ownership and responsibility. So after the build, the owners go in and inspect the completion with a copy of the ans and contract in hand. You point out every fault on the inspection plan. The builder then gets that copy and must either fix or reply based on what you have on your contract. Once satisfied you then sign over the contract that you are happy and its yours. I assume the same in principle happens there. So my question is did you notice this at the final inspection or afterwards. It may the case with a project build, but it is not always the case with a custom build, especially depending on the client's relationship with the build and the builder. Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 16Nov 07, 2019 8:55 pm I suppose the obvious question is why were there 2 sets of plans? There should only be one set of approved working drawings that have been signed off and form the basis for all construction. Who engaged and gave an alternate set of plans to the cabinet maker? Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 17Nov 07, 2019 8:55 pm sunny74 Is there a quick and easy solution to get someone to jump through the hoops rather than us? I wonder if part of the cause might not be evident there in your statement? Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 18Nov 07, 2019 8:56 pm building-expert Builder is in charge, builder is the captain, builder has your money. Funny, I've always been of a mind that no one looks after your interests better than...you. Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 19Nov 07, 2019 9:26 pm arcadelt building-expert Builder is in charge, builder is the captain, builder has your money. Funny, I've always been of a mind that no one looks after your interests better than...you. We paid a substantial fee for someone to manage as that is their profession. Google the definition of an architect or look in a dictionary. They are self professed experts who’s job I thought would have been not only to our best interests but to create a product they can use for their best interests... Going with your argument I may as well just built the whole house with my own two hands? Re: Cabinetry not build to plans on architect build 20Nov 07, 2019 9:36 pm Sunny. Do you have an answer to my question. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Your build is relatively simple, I believe your job can be easily done by a good building designer, you really do not need to pay for the architect. Remember, architect's… 3 10953 I've just had a look at the website. The company are just building broker's. There are plenty of similar companies that basically draw your plans (they own them so you… 8 10854 6 11528 |