Browse Forums General Discussion 1 May 28, 2019 7:15 pm HI all. Lots of conservation area houses in the lower north shore around Artarmon / Chatswood / Roseville - many of these undergo a massive 2nd storey addition and extension toward the back, as well as a rejuvenation of the front (paint, replace old timber features, maybe even cement render entire brickwork). How much would such a renovation, typically, cost? I know it's a difficult question to answer, depends on a lot of things, but really just after an empirical range answer. Alternatively I'm asking 'what do people typically spend on such a renovation?' 500k? 1.2m? I know it's probably between these two haha... E.g. to start with - 3br single storey double brick, original condition everything. To finish - extension upward (2nd storey added) and towards rear, new roof so there's no difference in tiles, cement render all bricks so can't see new/old mismatched bricks, new bath, new kitchen, new floors throughout (e.g. tile downstairs, floorboards upstairs), repaint. Exclude landscaping. Just after an estimate, or if you've done it yourself or know someone who has, actuals would be great. It would help me work out how much I'd like to pay for these types of properties. Thanks Re: 2nd floor additon in Sydney's lower north shore 2May 30, 2019 2:09 am this can be helpful: http://www.omara.com.au/design,_costs_links_-_what_you_need_to_know_.html "Most common 2nd storey addition requested consists of a new master bedroom, WIR, ensuite, 2 other bedrooms plus a small sitting room or lounge room. The construction cost of this size addition (approx 14x8m) is typically around $150,000.00 plus GST. This cost is for the 2nd storey addition work and extra costs are added to any work to the existing house such as new roof tiles, replace existing windows or doors, remove internal walls, renovate existing kitchen or bathrooms, etc" Re: 2nd floor additon in Sydney's lower north shore 3May 30, 2019 7:23 pm alexp79 this can be helpful: http://www.omara.com.au/design,_costs_links_-_what_you_need_to_know_.html "Most common 2nd storey addition requested consists of a new master bedroom, WIR, ensuite, 2 other bedrooms plus a small sitting room or lounge room. The construction cost of this size addition (approx 14x8m) is typically around $150,000.00 plus GST. This cost is for the 2nd storey addition work and extra costs are added to any work to the existing house such as new roof tiles, replace existing windows or doors, remove internal walls, renovate existing kitchen or bathrooms, etc" Thanks for this. Definitely helpful, but seems to be lower than what I'm hearing from builders around here. I spoke to three builders and got rough ballpark quotes ranging from: 400k, 700k, 1m-1.5m. Now for context, the 1m+ guy's previous clients are all pretty much lower north shore in 3m homes, whereas the other two work all over sydney, so I'm not sure if this is a relevant factor - maybe people up there are accustomed to a certain profit margin and price level? I asked the 1m guy as politely as possible to help me understand the reasons why he thinks it would cost 1m+ whereas some other builders reckon 400-700k and didn't get a clear answer, other than generally (paraphrasing) "when you add a new storey to an old home, the old parts must also be redone such that the entire house looks consistent and whole" which was, I believe, fully communicated and understood in great detail by the other two builders when I described what I wanted to achieve. I don't know what to make of this. I'll be visiting the cheaper builders' finished client sites as well as their own home which they built so I can closely assess their attention to detail, but really, I'm still at a complete loss where the extra 500k goes, if I were to hire one of those lower north shore guys. Is it all profit margin? Can't be, right? Please help me understand what that 1m guy's clients are paying for. Re: 2nd floor additon in Sydney's lower north shore 4May 31, 2019 12:38 am Limited site access and traffic management is the only problem I can foresee, but it all depends on the specific street and site. If you have a place for the cranes and concrete pump, then you should be good. Also, you can always go with mini-cranes too - there are number of options.
Other than that if you are talking about double brick house, it is just about knocking down and removing roof and roof frame (expect a lot of waste here), installing metal beams and then either timber or pour the suspended slab (check out Speed Floor system), scaffolding and then it is not much different from the normal house building process - you pay for the walls, windows, new roof framing and roof, extend your services and complete internal finishes. In the worst case you would need to re-render your older walls to match the style. Unless some serious changes will be required on the foundation level (e.g. the house adds more weight, you would need to ensure that your footings will be able to hold that weight) - and this is where the additional big costs can come (lifting the house and re-doing footings is not an easy job). You would need to prepare all your drawings, decide on your finishes, do the structural engineering and then approach the builders for the exact quotations, not the ballpark estimates. You can also engage quantity surveyor in order to better understand the costs involved. Considering that the most time consuming and unpredictable costs are generally associated with site works and earthmoving, your quotations should be in $1.5-2.5K per sqm range depending on the level of finishes you are expecting. Re: 2nd floor additon in Sydney's lower north shore 5May 31, 2019 8:07 am echelon6 This has been discussed many times before here 1. You'll need a preliminary 3D sketch, site report, contour, 3D engineering, data and quantities. 2. Use this data along with material pricing (freely available all over the internet , eg Bunnings Material Database) to approximate elemental material cost items) 3. Break down the project into core and non core trades ie Demolition, Earthworks, Footings, Framework, brickwork, Structural floors, Roof (All core elements) Electrical, Plumbing, cabinet,finishes (non core) ,etc,etc 4. All trade elements comprise of Materials +Labour + plant + profit = Trade Quote You have the material cost 2 above, Plant is minimal, Labour can be estimated using constants, the out standing variable is profit 5.Quotes can be obtained for trade elements using various websites, then reverse engineer costs using 4 above. work out profit.. negotiate a fair price It's never been so easy as all the above steps 1-5 have been automated using 3D BIM , Visual Scripting, Python and G Sheets Google choose to shut down free G+ communities what was free previous now costs money , let me know if you need access to the data and scripts,etc BTW you will need your own project in an AEC BIM Model Format choices here Revit, Sketchup, Vectorworks, Archicad, etc Ranked best to worse Revit & Sketchup offer complete AEC data, Vectorworks and Archicad lack Real Engineering, autocad is not BIM? Roof Element example here Detailed sequence of trades and tasks OT I have just complete a BIM Model & Data on a reno for a friend, cost plus 15% contract the builder said "Sure I can do that for $150-200K First quote is in, Wall and Roof Framework $50k? it's $20K over the mark... I doubt they will be given the work Battlers and punters need to take better control of their builds hth Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: 2nd floor additon in Sydney's lower north shore 7May 31, 2019 3:46 pm I am in Melbourne and got prices starting at 300k (very basic - just a couple of bedrooms upstairs) to 500k+ for something reasonably decent. And as mentioned you want the rest of the house to look good too, so it adds up very quickly It just didn't make sense financially, so ended up demolishing and building new Re: 2nd floor additon in Sydney's lower north shore 8Jun 17, 2019 3:09 pm alexp79 Limited site access and traffic management is the only problem I can foresee, but it all depends on the specific street and site. If you have a place for the cranes and concrete pump, then you should be good. Also, you can always go with mini-cranes too - there are number of options. Other than that if you are talking about double brick house, it is just about knocking down and removing roof and roof frame (expect a lot of waste here), installing metal beams and then either timber or pour the suspended slab (check out Speed Floor system), scaffolding and then it is not much different from the normal house building process - you pay for the walls, windows, new roof framing and roof, extend your services and complete internal finishes. In the worst case you would need to re-render your older walls to match the style. Unless some serious changes will be required on the foundation level (e.g. the house adds more weight, you would need to ensure that your footings will be able to hold that weight) - and this is where the additional big costs can come (lifting the house and re-doing footings is not an easy job). You would need to prepare all your drawings, decide on your finishes, do the structural engineering and then approach the builders for the exact quotations, not the ballpark estimates. You can also engage quantity surveyor in order to better understand the costs involved. Considering that the most time consuming and unpredictable costs are generally associated with site works and earthmoving, your quotations should be in $1.5-2.5K per sqm range depending on the level of finishes you are expecting. This side of the bridge alexp79, you'd be looking at more like 2.5 - 3K per sq metre to start with then level of finish and how much work to be done on the existing structure added to that as you mention. Stewie Re: 2nd floor additon in Sydney's lower north shore 9Jun 20, 2019 12:07 pm echelon6 HI all. Lots of conservation area houses in the lower north shore around Artarmon / Chatswood / Roseville - many of these undergo a massive 2nd storey addition and extension toward the back, as well as a rejuvenation of the front (paint, replace old timber features, maybe even cement render entire brickwork). How much would such a renovation, typically, cost? I know it's a difficult question to answer, depends on a lot of things, but really just after an empirical range answer. Alternatively I'm asking 'what do people typically spend on such a renovation?' 500k? 1.2m? I know it's probably between these two haha... E.g. to start with - 3br single storey double brick, original condition everything. To finish - extension upward (2nd storey added) and towards rear, new roof so there's no difference in tiles, cement render all bricks so can't see new/old mismatched bricks, new bath, new kitchen, new floors throughout (e.g. tile downstairs, floorboards upstairs), repaint. Exclude landscaping. Just after an estimate, or if you've done it yourself or know someone who has, actuals would be great. It would help me work out how much I'd like to pay for these types of properties. Thanks I live if the exact part of the world that you have described and I have two friends who have done what you described. One at middle cove who spend just under $1m and another at West Lindfield who spent $870k. I am also building a brand new house in the same area so I believe I have a pretty good handle on costs. Adding a second story is a very complex and slow process, you would spend the same building a 400sqm new house. 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