Page 2 of 3
Had a quick look at your previous build posts, in a nut shell
1. It staggers me why most people building don't put up Construction Photos, but rather colour Images of their selections?
you haven't put anything up? Basically, who is going to remember what was done structurally 10 years ago?
2. Do you or the Council have the Geotech report, Engineering Details and was it inspected by your independent Engineer?
3. Did the Builder or Builders engineer give you information concerning Reactive soils and foundation movements,prevention,etc?
4.Remediation and Cost $5K I read? You are way off the mark , times that by 4, and there is a high chance there will be no cure & warranty, Doctors and Engineers agree, prevention is better than cure.
5.OT, read the legal disclaimers rather than judgements/outcomes.
Just to address you points in order.
1. I wasn't really seeking people to look at my old build posts, just more noting so many years have passed. I can dig out my construction photos if people are really interested, just will need to convert from .NEF format.
2. I do have the Geotech report, it recommends an H class slab with a Type 2 waffle raft design. They also recomend piers on the fill side - this I'm not 100% sure was done, though, as slab was done before I had a chance to swing by and take photos. If there's anything else you'd like to know from that do let me know. It did all pass inspection though.
3. There was some information supplied - don't have it all to hand, but it was about ensuring paths slope away from the house so water doesn't pool against foundation, advising against garden beds right up against the house, or trees etc.
4. There go the life savings!
5. Yes there is a lot to go through. Ultimately, though, I paid hundreds of thousands of dollars only nine years ago for a house they guaranteed would be structurally sound for at least 25 years.
Was the heave on the fill side? Also was it a large fill?
How did the builder respond after you contacted them?
Was the heave on the fill side? Also was it a large fill?
Yes, the heave is on the fill side. The site fill volume was 65m3 - does that count as large? (EDIT: Land area was 568m2 and the house itself ('work area') 348m2).
We built with ..................... in 2010, in outer South-East Melbourne. We have highly reactive clay soil and an H-class slab (waffle pod).
On one corner of the house the second layer of bricks has shifted a few mm. There are gaps appearing around the outside of a couple of windows, and about 5-6 floor tiles have cracked (2-3 very recently) in the same area. There's also silicone coming away from where the skirting board meets the walls. So it's pretty clear we have slab heave on one side of the house.
What width gaps are the largest cracks? More than 5mm?
You have had dry, hot weather for an extended period and your issue is most probably subsidence caused by low subsoil moisture levels.
Builders invariably first blame the landscaping or the lack of a concrete perimeter but your problem may not be as bad as you fear. An assessment of the situation would require the services of a Geo Tech who consults with a structural engineer and StructuralBIMGuy has already asked if you still have the original Geotech report. This is important.
Forum member insider is the go to heave expert on this forum and his advice is always invaluable.
Was the heave on the fill side? Also was it a large fill?
Yes, the heave is on the fill side. The site fill volume was 65m3 - does that count as large? (EDIT: Land area was 568m2 and the house itself ('work area') 348m2).
My2c would be this is more due to sinking as oppose to clay soil causing slab heave.
Especially you are not sure if piers were put in... Also I dislike those slab where they put piers only in one section they reckon its needed.
In todays build from what I can read in HomeOne.. Most of the volume builders , especially metricon pier the whole slab.
SaveH2O The largest cracks aren't quite as big as 5mm yet. And MyFirst, thanks, I think you might be onto something there. I might send Insider a quick message to get his opinion also.
Is it worth me contracting a Geo Tech first, before I go back to Metricon? Or should I contact them and let them send someone out?
I would wait on advice from insider in the interim.
IF Metricon decide to investigate, they will send their own highly biased persons.
Was the heave on the fill side? Also was it a large fill?
Yes, the heave is on the fill side. The site fill volume was 65m3 - does that count as large? (EDIT: Land area was 568m2 and the house itself ('work area') 348m2).
My2c would be this is more due to sinking as oppose to clay soil causing slab heave.
Especially you are not sure if piers were put in... Also I dislike those slab where they put piers only in one section they reckon its needed.
In todays build from what I can read in HomeOne.. Most of the volume builders , especially metricon pier the whole slab.
Even if they are putting all the piers, they are not CONNECTING them with the slab, so heave is still possible as the slab can be "lifted" off the piers and then some dirt gets in between the slab and the piers.
But I'm talking about lack of rain and the soil contract hence sinking vs clay soil expanding.
As far as I know piering is to stop the issue of slab sinking.
But I'm talking about lack of rain and the soil contract hence sinking vs clay soil expanding.
As far as I know piering is to stop the issue of slab sinking.
In his case - the reactive natural soil side without piers is sinking more, while compacted fill rests on piers and is not sinking at all. And here you go - a slab heave.
But I'm talking about lack of rain and the soil contract hence sinking vs clay soil expanding.
As far as I know piering is to stop the issue of slab sinking.
In his case - the reactive natural soil side without piers is sinking more, while compacted fill rests on piers and is not sinking at all. And here you go - a slab heave.
Yup, hence my earlier comments. Just saying this is not necessarily caused by reactive soil expanding since that's what usually people jump into and say is the cause.
Yup, hence my earlier comments. Just saying this is not necessarily caused by reactive soil expanding since that's what usually people jump into and say is the cause.
Yep, but it could have expanded during the heavy rains before. Cracking generally appears when soil is unevenly expanding first (during rains etc.) and then contracting (during drought).
But in his case it seems the expansion part was not even needed.
Houses also settle. Cracks don't always mean heave.
Houses also settle. Cracks don't always mean heave.
+1
Houses also settle. Cracks don't always mean heave.
It is a bit worrying that the cracks are worsening, though. For instance we've had 2-3 more floor tiles crack this year in the same area. I've messaged Insider and will see what he says and go from there.
Nearly every time the builder comes to inspect potential slab heave,they nearly always blame ,home owner not protecting his slab with full contrete around slab and garden bed too close to house,why isn't this get out of jail card loophole closed,to my mind it's very convenient for builders especially volume builders to not close up this go to blame card,why hasn't regulartry bodies made this mandatory, can't understand why not.
Houses also settle. Cracks don't always mean heave.
It is a bit worrying that the cracks are worsening, though.
We can only give generalised overviews, you need an expert onsite. insider knows your area very well.
Nearly every time the builder comes to inspect potential slab heave,they nearly always blame ,home owner not protecting his slab with full contrete around slab and garden bed too close to house,why isn't this get out of jail card loophole closed,to my mind it's very convenient for builders especially volume builders to not close up this go to blame card,why hasn't regulartry bodies made this mandatory, can't understand why not.
I agree it sounds a bit off! IMHO the builder needs to leave the house in a state where it will be fine if left alone. Concreting was always a low priority for us. Had we been advised that we had to pave/concrete within a certain timeframe we would have done so, of course. But we shouldn't expect cracks and slab heave when we haven't done any landscaping beside the house, or flooded it etc.
Just to address you points in order.
1. I wasn't really seeking people to look at my old build posts, just more noting so many years have passed. I can dig out my construction photos if people are really interested, just will need to convert from .NEF format.
2. I do have the Geotech report, it recommends an H class slab with a Type 2 waffle raft design. They also recomend piers on the fill side - this I'm not 100% sure was done, though, as slab was done before I had a chance to swing by and take photos. If there's anything else you'd like to know from that do let me know. It did all pass inspection though.
3. There was some information supplied - don't have it all to hand, but it was about ensuring paths slope away from the house so water doesn't pool against foundation, advising against garden beds right up against the house, or trees etc.
4. There go the life savings!
5. Yes there is a lot to go through. Ultimately, though, I paid hundreds of thousands of dollars only nine years ago for a house they guaranteed would be structurally sound for at least 25 years.
Thanks for the reply
I've covered all these points in previous posts when answering the same questions, briefly
1. Words can only take you so far, photos and facts fill in the gaps
2. a. Pro & Cons of different slab types should have been explained to you
b. Concretors pour concrete when no one is around, and they hate engineers peering over there shoulder
c. LOL who inspected it the unqualified SS. nuf said
3. CSIRO fact sheet was described as a "Free get out of jail card" for the Builder should they require it, lawyers would disagree at your expense
4. No Yet, but on going underpinning might soak up your fund$
5. Yep, and that is why you should seek professional advice, before, during and after the build, contractually it's 7 Years structural
BTW I've been around long enough to know all the "tricks of the trade", I warn my clients, when checking... do more
Hardwood floor on stumps would be the best in most cases but there wouldn't be many builders who would do it let alone volume builders.
I have already written on this forum that slabs are a con of the century, a profit printing machine for the builders. Why would they build timber floors or equivalent sheet floors on steel frames and stumps? There is no profit to be made, they can't rip you for upgrades or for engineering solutions. And when they have banked your money they won't follow engineering specification. So we have engineered slabs done without supervision by tradies who have been screwed on price. I see it every week, no temporary downpipes, no site drainage. And when its all over and you have a problem its your fault.
I am a builder and I don't have an axe to grind against any other builder but what I continually see on the building sites disgusts me.
The crime of conning the home owners is abetted by failed consumer protection and the government departments who have failed to deliver what they are paid for and disciplining builders and weeding out bad building practices.