Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Sep 14, 2008 10:08 pm I have noticed on a few frames that we have viewed that the noggin between the studs have been anywhere from a few mm to the better part of a cm from being a snug fit.
Does anyone know what the building code specifies? Cheers, Teddy Bär Re: The noggin between the studs 2Sep 15, 2008 1:01 pm There may not be a regulation for the noggins, as they are just an afterthought to keep the studs parallel (to keep them from bowing either way). Re: The noggin between the studs 3Sep 15, 2008 6:26 pm Thats correct although it does sound like poor work. Re: The noggin between the studs 4Sep 15, 2008 6:49 pm Noggings do serve a structural purpose as they increase the buckling capacity of the stud which are basically the way your roof loads get to the floor.
Take out the noggings and studs would be overloaded....if I remember my mechanics lectures right half the column length double the capacity for any given section. Adding to that DIY'ers probably hang things on noggings ideally a snug fit would be best and there is no reason for it not to be when studs are fairly evenly spaced (well should be).....basically sloppy workmanship.... mmm....donuts Homer Simpson 1956- Links: Site Costs Ready Reckoner | H1 Addiction Medical Advice | Château TDL: The Backyard Re: The noggin between the studs 5Sep 16, 2008 7:47 am I am sure that noggins are a structural item and not an after thought as they help keep the stud from bowing in the middle and as such I would be reasonably sure that to_do_list is correct in that they serve a structural purpose.
This component may rule some builders out unless I can confirm the regulation for it and ensure that I can request that the noggins be done so as to fit snugly. Cheers, Teddy Bär Re: The noggin between the studs 7Sep 30, 2008 8:47 pm KWOOD2 As mentioned above, it not only looks bad, it's poor workmanship. It's not rocket science to cut a nogging to the correct size. I would have the carpenters replace the onces that are obvious. If your going to front an onsite chippy about that......dont expect any favours in return......dont forget its a building site ......not your house yet....they have the right to tell you to stay off the site... Go thru your site superviser, not the chippy..... Best Price Wardrobes Sliding door robes | Walk in robes Deco panel | Mirror | Melamine 26 to 28 Cottage lane Hackham M: 0402 927 376 http://www.bestpricewardrobes.com.au Trade welcome Re: The noggin between the studs 8Sep 30, 2008 8:57 pm It's not as easy as telling the client to get off of the site if you're only doing and extension and they're living on site!
You're right though, don't deal with the sub-contractor direct, mention it to the architect/building designer and builder/site supervisor... Re: The noggin between the studs 9Sep 30, 2008 9:07 pm Teddy Bär I am sure that noggins are a structural item and not an after thought Whilst they do form part of the overall structure, they are technically not a 'structual' member in that a noggin does not have to be structual pine. It can be non-structual pine the same as roof battens. As everyones said though, they should be a snug fit and its worth mentioning it to a foreman/ supervisor. Re: The noggin between the studs 10Oct 01, 2008 9:54 am Again if I remember my first year mechanics lectures correctly the member preventing buckling of a column - the nogging - only needs to be a small percentage of the capacity of the column, something like 2.5%.
Look at a warehouse (say Bunnings) and check out the small members preventing buckling of massive columns. Or a steel bridge and look at the small braces between massive beams. Hence yes the nogging does not need to be the same size or be structural grade but it does serve a structural purpose. But they make it out of the same material to avoid ordering another section size of timber. And I concur with the other comments...always...always talk to your SS first...even if the tradies are obviously stuffing something up on site limit the conversation to..."G'day...great weather...those Hawkers were good on the weekend"...rip shreds off the SS that's his job. Re: The noggin between the studs 11Oct 01, 2008 10:54 am How interesting...there were a few noggins missing from our build and the site superviser told us it was not required. Next thing we knew, it was plastered up (the very next day)....I wish we knew this before. Re: The noggin between the studs 12Oct 01, 2008 2:53 pm Dukekamaya Teddy Bär I am sure that noggins are a structural item and not an after thought Whilst they do form part of the overall structure, they are technically not a 'structual' member in that a noggin does not have to be structual pine. It can be non-structual pine the same as roof battens. As everyones said though, they should be a snug fit and its worth mentioning it to a foreman/ supervisor. Ceiling battens ?? Peter Clarkson - AusDesign Australia www.ausdesign.com.au This information is intended to provide general information only. It does not purport to be a comprehensive advice. Re: The noggin between the studs 13Oct 01, 2008 6:03 pm Roof battens.... the things the Colorbond sheets are screwed to. Re: The noggin between the studs 14Oct 01, 2008 7:00 pm Dukekamaya Roof battens.... the things the Colorbond sheets are screwed to. Where I come from, they call them 'purlins'... I would normally use structural pine (70x45) to fix C/B sheets. I pretty sure non-structural timber is used for a tiled roof. Re: The noggin between the studs 15Oct 01, 2008 7:34 pm Luke was just a bit confused , roof battens are structural that's why I thought he must have meant ceiling battens. Peter Clarkson - AusDesign Australia www.ausdesign.com.au This information is intended to provide general information only. It does not purport to be a comprehensive advice. Re: The noggin between the studs 16Oct 01, 2008 9:40 pm Thank you for the informative and education replies and sound advise.
How would I go about getting/finding the relevant building code info for this as I am sure that most SS's will try and get out of it by referencing that in a casual manner Cheers, Teddy Bär Re: The noggin between the studs 17Oct 02, 2008 9:03 am ausdesign Luke was just a bit confused , roof battens are structural that's why I thought he must have meant ceiling battens. I agree. My partner said that roof batterns are structural. He hasn't come across non structural timber used in roofs. He said it is required as it is load bearing as it holds up the tiles/roof. Re: The noggin between the studs 18Oct 02, 2008 4:54 pm A little space between the noggin and the wall is not a bad thing as it makes it easier to run things like antenna cables down. Ours also have a small gap and my bro in law (antenna guy) told me that its a very good thing. (otherwise you have to drill holes through the noggins. I assume it also applies to electric cables. Re: The noggin between the studs 19Oct 02, 2008 5:35 pm Mel&Em A little space between the noggin and the wall is not a bad thing as it makes it easier to run things like antenna cables down. Ours also have a small gap and my bro in law (antenna guy) told me that its a very good thing. (otherwise you have to drill holes through the noggins. I assume it also applies to electric cables. So if the electrical cable is in between the timber and the gyprock, how does someone else know where NOT to drill and fix something to. Antenna cables are ok because they do not carry enough current (volts,watts, amps or whatever) to kill you. Electrical cables are something else altogether. Holes drilled thru the centre of the timber, furthest from the gyrock on both side is the safest place for cables. Drilling through electrical cables is bad for your health. Best Price Wardrobes Sliding door robes | Walk in robes Deco panel | Mirror | Melamine 26 to 28 Cottage lane Hackham M: 0402 927 376 http://www.bestpricewardrobes.com.au Trade welcome Re: The noggin between the studs 20Oct 02, 2008 6:35 pm Mel&Em A little space between the noggin and the wall is not a bad thing as it makes it easier to run things like antenna cables down. Ours also have a small gap and my bro in law (antenna guy) told me that its a very good thing. (otherwise you have to drill holes through the noggins. I assume it also applies to electric cables. I'd be drilling holes in the centre of the nogging with a spade bit for the exact reason 'Kevin Brown' has mentioned even if it's just an antenna cable. I would keep the holes drilled through the studs to a minimum so that it doesn't compromise structural integrity. Old Home Restoration / Renovation To reduce noise transfer without compromising the aesthetic of your exposed I beams, consider filling the 100mm gap between the I beams and the floor above with dense,… 6 9146 The engineering is the engineering. It's irrelevant how much material you have. Unless it fits the requirements of your design the engineer can't "make"it work. You might… 7 9687 |