Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Oct 20, 2017 11:21 am My experience with Porter Davis was really bad and I am so regretful and disappointed by the way especially how the office handled the case when it came to the contract signing. I would like post my experience here as follow based on fact with each stage has the according written e-mail correspondence to refer. I wanted to share with people, if you really want to build with Porter Davis, below situation might be applicable to you as well. Please think twice before you commit so. This would also give you some guidance on what things will happen after committing with them: Stage 1 - Initial Meetings Like many of the other customers, my initial interest was attracted by Porter Davis by one of their floor plan (Madison) as the floor plan suits my block quite well and I thought they are a large builder with good reputation (high score on Product Review) so things wouldn't go wrong to build with them. After writing a inquiry with Porter Davis, an meeting with a sale consultant was soon arranged. Basically, the result of the meeting was a basic quote of the floor plan (Madison 45) was provided, and the consultant said the company was carrying out a 50-position $20,000 promotion on offer so if i pay 2,000 deposit i could lock the price and the promotion. I wasn't prepared to pay deposit in the first meeting and said will consider it and went back. Next one week, the consultant called me a few times and said wanted to meet me again because he worried the limited promotion would be ran out. So we met again I paid the deposit and did some paper work signed on the date of June 14 - 2017, including the Procedure of Purchase, Promotion offer, and the consultant tried to get me sign the appointment letter of the building surveyor which Porter Davis prefers. I didn't want to sign and he said this may effect the 20k promotion if the unpreferred building survey is appointed which will largely effect the construction on site, blah blah... It was understood later that actually the 20k promotion is so-called a "promise" of post-contract price variation to deduct 20k on the last payment of the contract price when the house is nearly finished and if everything goes well on the builder's favour. That means you have to keep saying yes to this builder all the time in order to get the 20k eventually. It is also understood recently that actually this 50-position limited offer-promotion is now available every single month. what a successful way of promotion Stage 2 - Preparation of color selection The experience was all right by then. After the initial meetings and I paid the deposit, I spent most of my weekends in the following month at Porter Davis's world of style (410 City Road, South Melbourne) to prepare the colour selection. I have to say most of the staff their were quite helpful in terms of give you some advice on the colour and material to choose and they were able to tell you which colour is upgraded one and whether it is worth to upgrade to give you good advice. BUT, they would never tell you, say, if you choose a specific updated item, such as an upgraded kitchen bench top, how much are we talking about: in terms of additional price, you will never know at this stage. Also the site cost is another part that you will be keen to know. I knew the soil test was ordered soon after I paid the deposit but they won't let you know until the very end when they wanted you to sign the contract. And if you hesitate to sign, they will remind you it may destroy the 20k promotion - details see Stage 5. Stage 3 - An E-mail from the Building Coordinator On the date of July 7 - 2017, I received an e-mail from Porter Davis office introducing her as my Building Coordinator (BC), the point of contact and she has arranged the appointments as follow: - WOS Appointment has been booked in for Monday 24th & Tuesday 25th July 2017 @ 9:00AM SHARP - Contract Appointment is booked in for Monday 7th August 2017 @ 1:00PM SHARP (All the appointments only can be arranged on weekdays. As building a house so no problem to show some seriousness and commitment to take a few days leave for these appointments. But looking at the result of this experience, I had to say , what a waste of time here if I'd knew earlier what would happen!!) In the BC's email there was also a 41 page of "Standard HIA Contract" attached which listed some terms of the building contract as a blank sample - This is the stage which from then on the experience turned out to be VERY BAD. Stage 4 - World of Style (wos) Appointment I took 2 days leave to attend the wos appointment and the again the staff in wos were all ok. the designer in charge was really responsible and some upgraded items were priced out accordingly but still a lot of items such as carpets upgrade, and the credit back (if you choose an upgraded item, the value of included item in lieu would be credit back) which would need to be estimated by the estimator in the back office. At this time, the most concerning part for me was how much the site cost would be and this will effect my budget on how much I can spend on the upgrade. It was later half of July already and I understood the soil test was actually done on 19 June, 5 days after I paid the deposit. (I knew this thereafter when they gave me the soil test report - details see stage 6.) I wrote the question how much was my site cost and credit back value would be to my bc and the bc appeared to be busy and only replied e-mail one out of there that I sent. Basically the answer was: WE WON'T KNOW IT UNTIL THE CONTRACT. Stage 5 - Contract Appointment On the date of August 7 - 2017, the Contract Appointment was supposed to be 1:00 pm sharp, but at 12:00, one hour before the contract, someone in the office contacted me that my bc was ill but the appointment can still happen and whether can do at 1:30 pm and someone else will carry out the meeting on behalf of the bc. (I was understood the representative was the bc's team leader). During the appointment, the representative presented me a whole package of contract documents incorporating the result of my wos selection, credit back calculation (if you choose an upgraded item, the value of included item need to be credit back) and the site cost, which I asked a few days in advance and the bc advised they were not available. I raised the concern that: before this Contract Appointment, I knew nothing about the site cost, the credit back, etc and there were A LOT OF NEW INFORMATION to me, I would need to bring this contract back to review in order to be comfortable to sign. The Porter Davis looked me in surprise and said "You are not going to sign today??!! that's the whole point we are sitting here!!" I said "No, I don't think so because there are so many new information to me which I need to digest and definitely not during this meeting, there is no sufficient condition - we are talking about a few hundreds pages package incarnating the drawings and 4xx,000 valued contract and I can't just sign them before I can review them." The presentative said: “didn’t the bc sent you a contract earlier?" I said "yes, but what she sent was a 41-page blank of the contract and we are talking about a full package here with so much information unreviewed." I also note the the builder's name inserted in the real contract was different from the "HIA contract". The HIA contract says the builder was BPG Pty Ltd but the contract said something else, because I wasn't allowed to be given the contract I couldn't remember who (the builder's company) that they want me to sign the building contract with, I only remember it was not the same as the HIA contract they sent earlier. One more interesting thing was, I questioned on the figure of the credit back sector as it was lower than I expected and would like to know, how the figure did came out. The representative brought the contract out of the room and talked to someone else in the office and came back saying "you are right there was something wrong here and the correct figure should be xxx,xxx". I was even more unconfident to sign the contract without further reviewing but, the presentative kept saying "sorry, you are not allowed to take the contract out of the office as this is our private property." Obliviously their expected result of the Contract Appointment didn't work out, and, of course, I was reminded that this would affect my 20k promotion if don't sign the contract on time. Stage 6 - Tried to solved the problem but failed After the Contract Appointment, I wrote a few times to Porter Davis that I still have interest to carry on but without reviewing the contract, I am really not confident to take anything further. Those requests were all declined the them reasons being "the contract is Porter Davis private property and you can not bring back to review". then I said, fair enough, then I would need the deposit 2,000 I paid to you to be fully refunded. Porter Davis replied "we in fact spend this Deposit on obtaining your Soil Reports and Information to be able to conduct and put together our Clients Tender & Contract documentation". Then I ask "since I paid you the money for the soil report and information to conduct the contract, why I couldn't even review the contract before I sign??!!" Stage 7 - Not building with them and share my expense On the date Oct 4 - 2017, I wrote an official e-mail to Porter Davis to inform that I am no longer interested in building with Porter Davis and the company should have the deposit fully refunded, given the fact there was no sufficient condition provided to read though and understand the contract although I requested a few times but being declined, so the company should take the responsibility of the cancel of the contract. One Oct 12 I received a call from Porter Davis, basically say they can give me the contract to review but limit to one week and after one week I have to sign and go ahead. I said sorry, there is no chemistry for more to in a mood continue with your company and it sounds more wired now you can agree my request - why you didn't agree in the first place? Therefore, I am still standing firmly that the whole experience I wasn't treated fairly as a customer. Not being given sufficient condition to review the contract and I had no choice but to cancel my contract and Porter Davis should take all the responsibility. And, of course, there will be no way for me to build with Porter Davis again. Re: Do you really want to build with someone who doesn't all 2Oct 20, 2017 12:38 pm Full marks for standing up for yourself, you are the customer and should be treated with courtesy, respect, dignity and in a competent and professional manner. Just imagine the rest of your journey if you did not get off the bus. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Do you really want to build with someone who doesn't all 3Oct 20, 2017 1:20 pm alexyangmarine Stage 1 - Initial Meetings So we met again I paid the deposit and did some paper work signed on the date of June 14 - 2017, including the Procedure of Purchase, Promotion offer, and the consultant tried to get me sign the appointment letter of the building surveyor which Porter Davis prefers. I didn't want to sign and he said this may effect the 20k promotion if the unpreferred building survey is appointed which will largely effect the construction on site, blah blah... Off the VBA website... "Legislation introduced on 1 September 2016 prevents the builder from appointing the private building surveyor. The appointment of the private building surveyor must be made by the owner or an agent of the owner other than the Builder. A private building surveyor must notify the relevant council within seven days of being appointed to a building project. Once building work is underway, the person in charge must ensure that the building surveyor's registration number and contact details, as well as the details of the building permit, are displayed on a site sign on the property in a visible location. Authorised agents You can authorise another person to act as your agent, to appoint a building surveyor for you. If you appoint an agent you must provide them with a written authority before they can act on your behalf. However, new legislation that commenced on 1 September 2016 prevents the Builder from appointing the private building surveyor. Before you sign a domestic building contract or a contract for building design services, check if it includes an authority for the designer to appoint a building surveyor. You should only sign this authority if you agree to allow the other person (other than the builder) to appoint your building surveyor." And from the following link... http://www.vba.vic.gov.au/2016-changes- ... -surveyors Scroll down to: Builders may not appoint private building surveyors "From 1 September 2016 it will be an offence for a builder to appoint a private building surveyor in respect of domestic building work. It will also be an offence for a private building surveyor to accept such an appointment offered by a builder." Click on Fact Sheet under the above text. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Do you really want to build with someone who doesn't all 4Oct 20, 2017 1:25 pm I'm with Metricon, and the contract experience appears to be similar to yours. I've been given the same sample documents, which didn't line up with what they said they've sent, and no explanation of the process. I've written back to them, on Monday, about my access and time to review prior to contract signing and other questions relating to building inspectors. I've yet to have a reply. They too seem to have a very scripted conversation and only stress the need to sign and be present for appointments and such, but no real customer care or ownership of the education of the client. I find it strange, and not sure how legally binding, they can force you to sign a document without legal representation. I know I'll be wanting my conveyancer to review it prior to me signing. I've asked about the two methods of payment schedules too, which no response on. As method 2 seems to front load a lot of the payments beyond the normal HIA schedule of payments. Yeah, Metricon has the regular 40 homes at discount limited offer too. But it's 40 homes per sales office and isn't as limited as it sold. SaveH20, yeah that document sent by my CSR wasn't properly explained and I've asked about that too. Re: Do you really want to build with someone who doesn't all 5Oct 20, 2017 1:38 pm What we badly need in the Domestic Building Contracts Act are penalties for unconscionable conduct and unfair contract clauses by builders in dealing with their customers, say mandatory jail term for the directors of building company for breaches. You would quickly see improved behaviour. For a builder to say that a customer will miss out on promotion if preferred building surveyor is not chosen (in the circumstances where by law builder cannot appoint a building surveyor) appears to be circumvention of the law in my view. Obviousle we also need prohibition of enticement for selection of builder's preferred building surveyor. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Do you really want to build with someone who doesn't all 6Oct 20, 2017 1:54 pm building-expert What we badly need in the Domestic Building Contracts Act are penalties for unconscionable conduct and unfair contract clauses by builders in dealing with their customers, say mandatory jail term for the directors of building company for breaches. Agree. If the opening post is a factual account, it would appear that alexyangmarine signed the contract under duress intentionally imposed as a sales tactic. The offence for a builder in Victoria appointing their own building surveyor carries a maximum penalty of $38,056.80 but how likely is that to ever be imposed? Regardless, the sales pressure to sign as stated by the OP would be in the very worst category. EDITED: Had to correct the maximum penalty amount. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Do you really want to build with someone who doesn't all 7Oct 20, 2017 7:00 pm rum_home I'm with Metricon, and the contract experience appears to be similar to yours. I've been given the same sample documents, which didn't line up with what they said they've sent, and no explanation of the process. I've written back to them, on Monday, about my access and time to review prior to contract signing and other questions relating to building inspectors. I've yet to have a reply. They too seem to have a very scripted conversation and only stress the need to sign and be present for appointments and such, but no real customer care or ownership of the education of the client. I find it strange, and not sure how legally binding, they can force you to sign a document without legal representation. I know I'll be wanting my conveyancer to review it prior to me signing. I've asked about the two methods of payment schedules too, which no response on. As method 2 seems to front load a lot of the payments beyond the normal HIA schedule of payments. Yeah, Metricon has the regular 40 homes at discount limited offer too. But it's 40 homes per sales office and isn't as limited as it sold. SaveH20, yeah that document sent by my CSR wasn't properly explained and I've asked about that too. Our full contract with full pricing was available weeks before our contract appt with Metricon. There was no way we'd have signed otherwise. Re: Do you really want to build with someone who doesn't all 8Oct 24, 2017 9:15 am tks for the info. this is the right way that it supposed to be do not pay until you are satisfied with workmanship windows require flashing over the head archithrave and up under weatherboards 3 28277 I would be wary. Is you site demilished but nothing else done? Sounds like liquidity problems to me. Our builder did the same. Got hundreds of thousands of dollars of… 2 15392 Sounds like rubbish to me. Ask for the contamination report which I doubt they have. If it's part of a normal subdivision it would have had a contamination report done… 9 5645 |