Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Aug 13, 2017 4:01 am We have considered a single storey home with Hebel, thinking of thermal qualities especially w a main road behind us. We got our energy report back but still had to increase insulation to R5 and R2.5? We are now considering a double storey and builder has suggested Exsulite (Dulux product promoted as similar to Hebel) for first floor and BV for ground. • Anyone know the difference between Hebel and Exsulite? • Is it worth the extra cost to use Exsulite for ground floor too? • Will it improve our energy rating? Re: Hebel had no impact on energy rating 2Aug 13, 2017 8:37 am @bvillemont Take it from me those static energy ratings are nonsense LOL...Open a window and watch their data and proofs fly out the door Tho They will tell you some data is better than nothing? The only true energy simulations are multiphysics FEAs which include Airflows, Heat transfer & Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD),etc,etc Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Hebel had no impact on energy rating 3Aug 13, 2017 8:49 pm Exsulite is a lightweight insulative cladding, similar to the cladding widely used in Europe and North America (and finally starting to catch on here in Australia). It's a better insulator than Hebel, and easier to repair should any repairs be necessary (although being a polymer it's more flexible and doesn't crack like masonry can). That being said, don't discount adding insulation to the inner walls as well, especially in Vic - 2.5 is still light-on for a typical house in that climate zone. Exsulite with halfway decent batts in the frame should easily achieve R3.5+, making your house more comfortable and energy-efficient. We're building double-storey too and after a *lot* of research, our external walls will be entirely Exsulite (both floors) with batts as well. Re: Hebel had no impact on energy rating 4Aug 13, 2017 8:59 pm That being said, the Australian energy ratings are a bit of a joke. They're okay at picking up issues with standard Australian designs, but they're not so good at taking into account modern building systems and best practices (to put it mildly). They also completely ignore airtightness, which in reality is critical when evaluating energy efficiency. Australian houses leak like sieves compared to most other developed nations, which on it's own makes a joke of the whole static energy rating system even without the other issues. It's no good having a theoretical 10-star energy rating when you're having to reheat your entire internal air volume every five minutes. Re: Hebel had no impact on energy rating 5Aug 13, 2017 10:57 pm Comparing Exsulite with Hebel is really not an apple to apple comparison. Exsulite is just another EPS cladding product, which is why it has a higher insulation rating as it is an insulation product by itself. If really looking for polystyrene type cladding, there are plenty of better choices out there. XPS (extruded polystyrene) panels are definitely better than EPS. ie. Formular XPS. Hebel is a solid masonry, that is if you want a solid house but don't want to use bricks. R rating is not everything. Re: Hebel had no impact on energy rating 6Aug 13, 2017 11:49 pm Installing XPS-based lightweight on your second floor will help to sort out several things at once: 1) You get your required 3.0R+ of insulation with 50-70 mm panels (e.g. check out Knauf Climafoam or Foamular), so you can use lighter 70 mm frame. 2) XPS panels are impact resistant and can hold structural load of up to 500 kPa. 3) The only concern is that acoustically they are not as good as brick or Hebel, however, you can always add acoustic batts and/or some mass loaded vinyl to your frame where advanced noise protection is required (e.g. bedrooms facing the road, etc.). 4) If your first floor is smaller than your ground floor, then you might be also saving some money on structural steel beams - they won't be required for lightweight timber framed construction (but worth checking with your structural engineer). Hebel Panels R rating is far from outstanding and it will still require insulation. Hope it helps. WBR, Alex Re: Hebel had no impact on energy rating 7Aug 14, 2017 11:11 am Note that XPS insulation (e.g. Climafoam or Foamular) provides a better insulation value per centimetre of depth compared to EPS (Exsuilite), but EPS provides a better insulation value per dollar (there's a lot more energy and chemical input that goes into making XPS). As with many things on the internet, there are many arguments over which is "better". The truth is that they are different products with different characteristics, and different strengths and weaknesses. XPS is stronger than EPS, and is a structural material in and of itself, but those characteristics may not be relevant in a single residential building, especially for upper floors. For example, EPS is vapour-permeable and has higher drying potential (especially under severe weather conditions), which combined with it's lower cost often makes it a better choice for residential walling systems compared to XPS. Conversely, XPS's properties make it the go-to for slab insulation, or for insulating large multi-storey walls. Of course, just to make it even more difficult, you can also combine the two, e.g. EPS cladding with XPS in-frame (or vice versa). Most importantly, though, is that your builder and their trades are familiar with the system, not just the product. Some of the new technologies are being badmouthed by some people due to failures that are the fault of incorrect installation - the best products won't work if they're not installed correctly. You don't build a wall out of just 'brick' - you need a wall system, including mortar. Ditto for any other product - it's not just a matter of choosing the product, you need the full system to be designed well and installed well (and that is especially important for systems involving XPS where the lack of vapour permeability needs to be taken into account). Exsulite is considered to be one of the better EPS products out there because they've got a good system (not just the EPS panels themselves) and good support from a major building supplier (Dulux). The fact that it's been you builder who's brought it up is a good sign for going down that route - you could talk about other systems with your builder, but make sure that your builder is fully on board before committing to anything too esoteric. Re: Hebel had no impact on energy rating 8Aug 15, 2017 8:51 am I would get some and conduct my own tests , anything anyone said or claims can be deceptive, it would give you peace of mind and you would really know if it works. Ive done this for many products, and ended up with a great result. 10 years ago was a different software than we use now. it has had a lot of changes over the past years. 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