Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Jan 21, 2017 9:17 am Hello, My building contract has a confidentiality clause that I am trying to understand. It starts by defining "Confidential Information" as anything builder may provide (drawings, designs etc.) which "may not be accessible to or known to the general public" and then lists a number or things I cannot do in relation to this Confidential Information. Then it specifically requires the owner to agree that the confidentiality obligation applies to the terms of the contract and any information disclosed to the owner (including documents) by the builder. Can the builder agreement itself be deemed confidential? It is a standard contract (meaning not a negotiated contract) and I would have thought all standard contracts are public information. Say the builder did not meet the obligations under the contract and gave reasons. Does it mean that I cannot discuss the reasons in this forum to compare notes with how others have dealt with the problem and got a satisfactory outcome? I know defamation is what builders are concerned with, but this being a home builder's forum, and where I expect from time to time project builders are rated, surely discussion of problems owners have with builders, for example with maintenance issues by reference to the builder, should not be gagged. I wonder what others think. Regards Jaya Re: confidentiailty of builder agreement with a project buil 2Jan 21, 2017 2:37 pm I asked the council why I couldn't see building applications (so I would get mine correct first go) but they said because of copyright. I'm guessing the house designs. What else could it be? I mean really? You can get a phone app that scans a room and draws a plan automatically now. Re: confidentiailty of builder agreement with a project buil 3Jan 22, 2017 7:12 am I would be careful of naming a builder on here - if you are planning to make a defamatory comment. Clearly you can ask questions about issues but accusing someone of something can be fraught with legal danger. Anyone can claim something is confidential - and even put a stamp on it. This does not make it so. Re: confidentiailty of builder agreement with a project buil 5Jan 23, 2017 11:59 am Getting a pre contract inspector'would have enabled you to negotiate out this clause'standard contract is jargon talk used to fool customers into thinking it protects you'but really protects the builder much better. Re: confidentiailty of builder agreement with a project buil 6Sep 15, 2017 6:25 pm Hi jayasooriah, Once you sign that sort of clause you are indeed gagged. The contract must be in keeping with the spirit of the 'Domestic Building Contracts Act, but you'll need a solicitor to help you if you want to make an issue of it. I wouldn't if I were you. The same goes for VCAT Mediations, probably also DBDRV compulsory conciliation and VCAT Compulsory Conferences. Next time if there is one, you'll know what not to accept. Some builders insert (same type) cute clauses that you wouldn't believe. Re: confidentiailty of builder agreement with a project buil 7Sep 15, 2017 10:09 pm Jayasooriah, have you Googled "unfair terms in contract" or read the Australian Consumer Law (contained in schedule 2 of the Competition and Consumer Act 2010 (formerly known as the Trade Practices Act)? It may apply to your case. What has the builder to be scared of? 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: confidentiailty of builder agreement with a project buil 8Sep 15, 2017 10:28 pm Section 23 Unfair terms of consumer contracts (1) A term of a consumer contract is void if: (a) the term is unfair; and (b) the contract is a standard form contract. (2) The contract continues to bind the parties if it is capable of operating without the unfair term. (3) A consumer contract is a contract for: (a) a supply of goods or services; or (b) a sale or grant of an interest in land; to an individual whose acquisition of the goods, services or interest is wholly or predominantly for personal, domestic or household use or consumption. Section 24 Meaning of unfair (1) A term of a consumer contract is unfair if: (a) it would cause a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations arising under the contract; and (b) it is not reasonably necessary in order to protect the legitimate interests of the party who would be advantaged by the term; and (c) it would cause detriment (whether financial or otherwise) to a party if it were to be applied or relied on. (2) In determining whether a term of a consumer contract is unfair under subsection (1), a court may take into account such matters as it thinks relevant, but must take into account the following: (a) the extent to which the term is transparent; (b) the contract as a whole. (3) A term is transparent if the term is: (a) expressed in reasonably plain language; and (b) legible; and (c) presented clearly; and (d) readily available to any party affected by the term. (4) For the purposes of subsection (1)(b), a term of a consumer contract is presumed not to be reasonably necessary in order to protect the legitimate interests of the party who would be advantaged by the term, unless that party proves otherwise. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: confidentiailty of builder agreement with a project buil 9Jun 10, 2018 8:26 am Hi everyone, We now have a resolution in relation to the right of a builder to enforce confidentiality clauses. You can read about it in Wisdom Homes undertaking to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission. Wisdom Homes undertaking to ACCC A win for consumers. Kind regards, Jaya Re: confidentiailty of builder agreement with a project buil 10Jun 10, 2018 9:50 am Wisdom Homes unfair contract terms. Amazing that it went on for 10 years, Have your considerable issues with your ducted air con also been resolved? 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: confidentiailty of builder agreement with a project buil 11Jun 10, 2018 11:20 am Hi Jaya, I have been following your posts and have been very impressed with your dilligence to all matters. I was also wondering whether Wisdom Homes tried to enforce their unfair contract clause on you after your other post but now I know. With approximately 3,000 other contracts over a 10 year period, the laws of probability are somewhat askew as to you being the only one so affected and a quick search has confirmed this. The aircon appears to be an installation issue (Ultra Air). This issue is way outside of my area of expertise but the electrical industry is strictly regulated. My thoughts are that there is a stalemate and it shouldn't be your task to deal with Wisdom Homes' contractors because Wisdom Homes is the retailer of the product you purchased as per your contract and it is their responsibility to ensure that what you have been supplied and installed is compliant and commensurate with the manufacturers performance specifications and fitting instructions. Let's not forget that builders put a % mark up on all items and services provided by their sub contractors and this is also to cover the builder's time and out of pocket expenses to rectify situations such as this. The Whirlpool Forums Home sub forum has a lot of resident electricians who are very knowledgeable and would advise as to the best course of action to now take and what regulatory governance and inspection request would apply to the installation. Good luck. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: confidentiailty of builder agreement with a project buil 12Jun 10, 2018 8:07 pm jayasooriah Hi everyone, We now have a resolution in relation to the right of a builder to enforce confidentiality clauses. You can read about it in Wisdom Homes undertaking to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission. Wisdom Homes undertaking to ACCC A win for consumers. Kind regards, Jaya Hi jayasooriah Was this undertaking the result of your complaint? This is a fantastic outcome not only for you but all other Wisdom Homes customers. It is good to hear of somebody managing to take on a builder and get a fair outcome. Re: confidentiailty of builder agreement with a project buil 13Jun 19, 2018 12:05 pm Liliana Was this undertaking the result of your complaint? This is a fantastic outcome not only for you but all other Wisdom Homes customers. It is good to hear of somebody managing to take on a builder and get a fair outcome. Hi Liliana, Paragraph 2.7 in Wisdom Homes undertaking to remove the unfair contract term suggests ProductReview.com was involved. Notice of Removal - Wisdom Homes The Notice of Removal suggests Wisdom Homes enforced its Confidentiality Clause arguably indirectly through ProductReview.com Kind regards, Jaya Re: confidentiailty of builder agreement with a project buil 14Jun 19, 2018 12:17 pm jayasooriah Liliana Was this undertaking the result of your complaint? This is a fantastic outcome not only for you but all other Wisdom Homes customers. It is good to hear of somebody managing to take on a builder and get a fair outcome. Hi Liliana, Paragraph 2.7 in Wisdom Homes undertaking to remove the unfair contract term suggests ProductReview.com was involved. Notice of Removal - Wisdom Homes The Notice of Removal suggests Wisdom Homes enforced its Confidentiality Clause arguably indirectly through ProductReview.com Kind regards, Jaya That's interesting. I didn't realise that Product Review.com took their responsibilities to consumers so seriously. Good to know. Re: confidentiailty of builder agreement with a project buil 15Jun 19, 2018 3:14 pm jayasooriah Paragraph 2.7 in Wisdom Homes undertaking to remove the unfair contract term suggests ProductReview.com was involved. Notice of Removal - Wisdom Homes The Notice of Removal suggests Wisdom Homes enforced its Confidentiality Clause arguably indirectly through ProductReview.com Text pasted from the above link. "Notice: Removal of Reviews We wish to inform users that 81 reviews and 29 Q&A items have been removed from this listing page following correspondence with Wisdom Property Group Pty Ltd’s (“Wisdom Homes’”) legal representatives. Wisdom Homes has claimed that the reviews and Q&A items previously published on this page breach a contractual provision that we are informed prohibits customers of Wisdom Homes from writing reviews on the ProductReview website, amongst other restrictions. After considering this claim, we have decided to remove the material in question and will not be publishing reviews of Wisdom Homes by its customers until the relevant contractual terms have been changed." Hmmm. 81 deleted reviews and 29 deleted Q & A items on one site is a lot of "enforcing". 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: confidentiailty of builder agreement with a project buil 16Jun 19, 2018 3:29 pm Ohhhh! I stupidly didn't read the link - only your comments - because I assumed you were reposting your previous link to the undertaking made to the ACCC by Wisdom Homes. That puts a completely different light on the matter. Re: confidentiailty of builder agreement with a project buil 18Jun 19, 2018 4:14 pm I have to agree. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: confidentiailty of builder agreement with a project buil 19Jun 20, 2018 9:09 am Liliana Still if I was thinking of building with Wisdom Homes I think I would find that notice even more off-putting than the reviews themselves. ProductReview posting guidelines make an interesting read. https://www.productreview.com.au/i/review-guidelines.html Their legal threats policy reads: Removal Requests We consider reasoned and polite requests regarding content removal. If you believe a review or other content should be removed for breaching our Posting Guidelines, infringing or violating someone’s rights or otherwise violating the law, you should report this by clicking on the flag icon under the posts. Be detailed and factual as to why you think the content needs to be removed. The more evidence you provide, the easier it is for us to make a decision. Although we won't be able to reply to every request, rest assured that we investigate every one of them. Threatening requests We take a zero tolerance approach to threatening requests sent to ProductReview and reserve the right to take any or all of the following actions:
Perhaps this is a good model for forum administrators to consider. Re: confidentiailty of builder agreement with a project buil 20Jun 20, 2018 11:13 am Leonardo_23 Some builders insert (same type) cute clauses that you wouldn't believe. Agree. This thread's topic highlight's a serious issue and there should be a sticky on the thread as unfair contract clauses are indeed becoming common. New home buyers need to be aware of their legal rights and not subjected to bullying with baseless legal threats. As an aside, the current behaviour of an increasing number of Victorian builders who are inserting unfair contract clauses as a means to circumvent the legislated requirement for new home buyers to appoint the building surveyor also needs to be investigated but the powers that be in the VBA are high salaried toothless tigers who are failing to act despite their awareness of this serious issue. A Royal Commission into the building and plumbing industries is long overdue but let's not forget that the sustained call for a Royal Commission into the banking industry met with much resistance from many politicians. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Hi All, We signed a prelim agreement last year (May 2022) and paid deposit to a builder. However, we didn't go ahead with them and never signed a contract. We ended going… 0 2282 In NSW the maximum deposit for building work is 5% until the builder provides HBCF insurance 1 4786 You need to respond to the Builder within 10 business day advising of your rejection of claim as per SoPA on a payment Schedule, Do not miss this deadline. 3 7232 |