Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Aug 24, 2016 10:17 pm After getting my yard excavated, graded and preparing to lay turf everywhere I've just now learnt that apparently I should be surrounding the whole house in a concrete footpath. My first thought is that it's hideous and doesn't work with anything that I want to do. Secondly it will cost an absolute fortune. I guess my first question is is it really necessary? I was going to turf up to the edge of the house, sloping away and have drains close to the house. The ground is M class clay/dirt in coastal NSW. If it is really highly recommended could I perhaps use pavers instead? I was thinking of putting down some impervious material graded away from the house and filling with pebbles and spaced pavers. At least with that I could probably reasonably do it myself and try and find bargains. Re: Concrete path or pavers 2Aug 25, 2016 10:36 am Hi SancHarmony The options are pavers or concrete for DIYers pavers is the way to go an impervious layer is required beneath the paver's be careful not to puncture the Polythene membrane, include adequate slope and drainage, There are Calculations & apps available for stormwater design, etc,etc Let me know if you require engineering details, instructions & further info etc.Cheers Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Concrete path or pavers 3Aug 25, 2016 11:37 am Hi StructuralBIMGuy thanks for the response. I didn't particularly want any hard surfaces in my yard but if it's what I have to do then I guess I need to do it. I'm leaning towards pavers at this time as to be totally honest I absolutely cannot afford concrete everywhere and don't want the sight of it. Any details you might have would be great. Re: Concrete path or pavers 4Aug 26, 2016 7:36 am I do understand aesthetics and co$t are driving considerations.. as an engineer (Structural Repairs) I see too many battlers get sucked in by what it should look like in a perfect world and many fail to hit the ideals short/long term . There is also the need to weigh up variables factors like engineering/costs/m2/Time/ skill/ expectations? COST ie, Labour (DIY, Subbies-> fair price,etc) M2, MATERIALS (Concrete,pavers->durability, surrounding vegetation,etc) , Project size? PLANT & EQUIPMENT (on hand, Purchase,hire, loan,etc. TIME, Long term effects and maintenance (New projects look great...maybe not so after the ravages of time?) So more info is required, upload photos, sketches,maybe a video?.. this also help others that are in similar situations.. The engineeing details/ advice needs to be specific and followed. HTH Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Concrete path or pavers 5Aug 27, 2016 3:25 pm Here's some photos of what I've got to work with. In recent rains the eaves seem to be doing pretty well keeping the ground against the house dry. I have no external drainage. All up we're looking at around 52 metres of concrete around the house. http://imgur.com/a/er980 Re: Concrete path or pavers 6Aug 29, 2016 4:50 pm StructuralBIMGuy Hi SancHarmony The options are pavers or concrete for DIYers pavers is the way to go an impervious layer is required beneath the paver's be careful not to puncture the Polythene membrane, include adequate slope and drainage, There are Calculations & apps available for stormwater design, etc,etc Let me know if you require engineering details, instructions & further info etc.Cheers Hi, As someone about to plan many backyard improvements this topic interests me as our current backyard (house built in early 1980's) has no concrete or paving outside of the house where the grass/dirt meets the wall. Like the original poster here I was just going to improve the drainage near the wall, especially as it is the south side and does not dry out well in winter if there has been rain, although slope is not an issue. If you could point me towards the standards or building requirements that describe what needs to be done that would be appreciated. Also any of the calcs or apps you mentioned above. To the OP, sorry for any hijacking of the thread but it appears we both need to find out more about this topic! Re: Concrete path or pavers 7Aug 29, 2016 6:44 pm bg100 To the OP, sorry for any hijacking of the thread but it appears we both need to find out more about this topic! No dramas at all, happy to hear any information that can be provided. The reason I got onto it to begin with was that I was given a CSIRO document by my builder about protecting foundations. "It is essential to remember that the soil that affects footings extends well beyond the actual building line. Watering of garden plants, shrubs and trees causes some of the most serious water problems. For this reason, particularly where problems exist or are likely to occur, it is recommended that an apron of paving be installed around as much of the building perimeter as necessary. This paving should extend outwards a minimum of 900mm (more in highly reactive soil) and should have a minimum fall away from the building of 1:60. The finished paving should be no less than 100mm below brick vent bases." Now I'm not sure whether to read that as it is something that must be done to prevent problems or if it's something that should be done if problems are experienced to prevent it from worsening. "It is essential to remember that the soil that affects footings extends well beyond the actual building line. Watering of garden plants, shrubs and trees causes some of the most serious water problems. For this reason, particularly where problems exist or are likely to occur, it is recommended that an apron of paving be installed around as much of the building perimeter as necessary. This paving should extend outwards a minimum of 900mm (more in highly reactive soil) and should have a minimum fall away from the building of 1:60. The finished paving should be no less than 100mm below brick vent bases.""It is essential to remember that the soil that affects footings extends well beyond the actual building line. Watering of garden plants, shrubs and trees causes some of the most serious water problems. For this reason, particularly where problems exist or are likely to occur, it is recommended that an apron of paving be installed around as much of the building perimeter as necessary. This paving should extend outwards a minimum of 900mm (more in highly reactive soil) and should have a minimum fall away from the building of 1:60. The finished paving should be no less than 100mm below brick vent bases.""It is essential to remember that the soil that affects footings extends well beyond the actual building line. Watering of garden plants, shrubs and trees causes some of the most serious water problems. For this reason, particularly where problems exist or are likely to occur, it is recommended that an apron of paving be installed around as much of the building perimeter as necessary. This paving should extend outwards a minimum of 900mm (more in highly reactive soil) and should have a minimum fall away from the building of 1:60. The finished paving should be no less than 100mm below brick vent bases." Now I'm not sure whether to read that as it is something that must be done to prevent problems or if it's something that should be done if problems are experienced to prevent it from worsening. To be totally honest I can't afford to surround my house in concrete and I'm willing to run the gauntlet if other people here haven't seen any problems.I'm not sure whether to read that as it is something that must be done to prevent problems or if it's something that should be done if problems are experienced to prevent it from worsening. To be totally honest I can't afford to surround my house in concrete and I'm willing to run the gauntlet if other people here haven't seen any problems Re: Concrete path or pavers 8Aug 29, 2016 7:24 pm Thanks for the photos A couple of questions Is your footings waffle or deep beam? Which is the storm/weather side of the house..timber deck side? Just curious as to what's on the higher side behind the fence is it garden,pavers,etc? Does your neighbours block slope down to your side behind the retaining wall? In which case an agri drain would be advisable also. Leave a PM and I will send you specific details Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Concrete path or pavers 9Aug 29, 2016 7:28 pm Neighbours block is leveled off like mine and it's all blue metal and ag drain behind that retaining wall with turf on top. Re: Concrete path or pavers 10Aug 29, 2016 8:05 pm bg100 Hi, As someone about to plan many backyard improvements this topic interests me as our current backyard (house built in early 1980's) has no concrete or paving outside of the house where the grass/dirt meets the wall. Like the original poster here I was just going to improve the drainage near the wall, especially as it is the south side and does not dry out well in winter if there has been rain, although slope is not an issue. If you could point me towards the standards or building requirements that describe what needs to be done that would be appreciated. Also any of the calcs or apps you mentioned above. To the OP, sorry for any hijacking of the thread but it appears we both need to find out more about this topic! Improving drainage and directing water away/around the perimeter of your house to disposal points does minimise, Heave->differential settlement ->masonry & Slab cracking. Unfortunately there aren't exact standards as such just good practice/recommendations There are calcs for storm water run off for roofs, driveways etc, if you would like I'll format one and put it up on google apps Photos do help as it's not always possible to think of every conceivable case scenario that needs to be factored into the design options... if you get the gist Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Concrete path or pavers 11Aug 29, 2016 9:02 pm StructuralBIMGuy Thanks for the photos A couple of questions Is your footings waffle or deep beam? Which is the storm/weather side of the house..timber deck side? Just curious as to what's on the higher side behind the fence is it garden,pavers,etc? Does your neighbours block slope down to your side behind the retaining wall? In which case an agri drain would be advisable also. Leave a PM and I will send you specific details Waffle footings. Yeah the deck side would be the weather side. 6 meters to the boundary on that side. 1350mm on the other side. Re: Concrete path or pavers 12Aug 29, 2016 11:02 pm SancHarmony The reason I got onto it to begin with was that I was given a CSIRO document by my builder about protecting foundations. Many builders give new home owners the CSIRO document but neglect to document that part of the document's vital information is non compliant and a get out of jail free card for the builder if followed and there is subsequent problems with slab heave or other issues. Did your builder inform you of erroneous advice in the CSIRO document? 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Concrete path or pavers 13Aug 29, 2016 11:06 pm SaveH2O SancHarmony The reason I got onto it to begin with was that I was given a CSIRO document by my builder about protecting foundations. Many builders give new home owners the CSIRO document but neglect to document that part of the document's vital information is non compliant and a get out of jail free card for the builder if followed and there is subsequent problems with slab heave or other issues. Did your builder inform you of erroneous advice in the CSIRO document? They actually didn't make any specific mention of the document or anything within it was just included in a bundle of stuff we were given at handover. Re: Concrete path or pavers 14Aug 29, 2016 11:18 pm The critical error in the CSIRO document was referencing a minimum 1:60 slope which equates to 17mm over the first metre whereas a minimum 1:20 slope (50mm over the first metre) is the standard. If there is a foundation problem, the first thing that the builder will check is the slope away from the house. I am going to post the regulations in response to a query by bg100. The NCC (National Construction Code Parts 1, 2 & 3) can be downloaded free of charge now. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Concrete path or pavers 15Aug 29, 2016 11:23 pm bg100 If you could point me towards the standards or building requirements that describe what needs to be done that would be appreciated. The BCA states: "3.1.2.3 Surface water drainage Surface water must be diverted away from Class 1 buildings as follows: (a) Slab-on-ground — finished ground level adjacent to buildings: the external finished surface surrounding the slab must be drained to move surface water away from the building and graded to give a slope of not less than (see Figure 3.1.2.2)— (i) 25 mm over the first 1 m from the building in low rainfall intensity areas for surfaces that are reasonably impermeable (such as concrete or clay paving); or (ii) 50 mm over the first 1 m from the building in any other case. (b) Slab-on-ground — finished slab heights: the height of the slab-on-ground above external finished surfaces must be not less than (see Figure 3.1.2.2)— (i) 100 mm above the finished ground level in low rainfall intensity areas or sandy, well-drained areas; or (ii) 50 mm above impermeable (paved or concreted areas) that slope away from the building in accordance with (a); or (iii) 150 mm in any other case." 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Hello everyone, After some suggestions and ideas about how to put a concrete path around the drop edge beam area on our new build. We are required to have a concrete path… 0 12872 Thank you so much for your response. I have drawn a pedestrian gate in - for curb appeal, let's see how much costs come in at. 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