Browse Forums General Discussion 1 May 24, 2016 11:27 pm Hi all I have decided to go down the path of a Knockdown & Rebuild with Henley. I recently received a site cost estimate and it has come up above my expectations - $81,000. I expected it to be more than those in new housing estates, but not this much more. The most significant items were: - Cut and fill (there's 1.3m of fall across the land) = $15k - retaining wall - $11k - Bored piers for the foundation - $14k - Traffic management $9k Just wondering if anyone else have encountered similar issues with site costs and would appreciate any advice on how to negotiate a better deal on this. Thanks in advance! Re: Excessive site costs? 2May 25, 2016 12:04 am More info required, do you have a contour survey, Geotech site report, prelim Engineering details? If all you have received is an initial estimate Around $81k then don't proceed any further until the total costs are itemised so that you are able to compare & scrutinize them with the above ..otherwise those PS estimates can increase even further. goodluck Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Excessive site costs? 3May 25, 2016 10:38 pm StructuralBIMGuy More info required, do you have a contour survey, Geotech site report, prelim Engineering details? If all you have received is an initial estimate Around $81k then don't proceed any further until the total costs are itemised so that you are able to compare & scrutinize them with the above ..otherwise those PS estimates can increase even further. goodluck Hi there, Yes, they have supplied a survey and siting for the house. I also have a soil test report, which I think is lacking in content. It resembles a form with checkboxes for the site type (H1), presence of trees (yes), piers requirements (yes @ 1000mm below ground level) and various other information. They have also provided bore logs. The good news is that they have itemised the costs, so I can resolve it line by line with them. After some chatting, I learned that some costs can be reduced (but no guarantees, as everything is preliminary until the tender stage). Did anyone have much luck negotiating going through line by line with them? The bored piers for foundation is the most expensive item, and I reckon if I can get that down, that would be a win. Re: Excessive site costs? 4May 26, 2016 12:43 am Hi mhouse $81k is probably more than double what most would be prepared to spend? From an engineering perspective you could probably reduce the size, shape and weight of the design/structure, is it full masonry or light frame & perhaps a optimal re-design? Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Excessive site costs? 5May 26, 2016 3:52 pm Can you look for split level design so you could save on site cut etc? Re: Excessive site costs? 6May 26, 2016 8:55 pm mhouse StructuralBIMGuy More info required, do you have a contour survey, Geotech site report, prelim Engineering details? If all you have received is an initial estimate Around $81k then don't proceed any further until the total costs are itemised so that you are able to compare & scrutinize them with the above ..otherwise those PS estimates can increase even further. goodluck Hi there, Yes, they have supplied a survey and siting for the house. I also have a soil test report, which I think is lacking in content. It resembles a form with checkboxes for the site type (H1), presence of trees (yes), piers requirements (yes @ 1000mm below ground level) and various other information. They have also provided bore logs. The good news is that they have itemised the costs, so I can resolve it line by line with them. After some chatting, I learned that some costs can be reduced (but no guarantees, as everything is preliminary until the tender stage). Did anyone have much luck negotiating going through line by line with them? The bored piers for foundation is the most expensive item, and I reckon if I can get that down, that would be a win. If there are Trees then it should be class "P" and not "H1" and therefore engineer designed.1000mm below ground levels is not very deep when considering tree impact.What area are you in ? Re: Excessive site costs? 7May 27, 2016 4:08 pm Thanks all for your input. $81k is too much indeed - from what I've seen here, it seems the people who cop such a large cost are building on problem sites, which does not seem to be the issue here I'm building in the Rosanna area, which is known for having rocks in the area (my quote has a provision for rock removal) The soil report did come back with ticks on both class P and H1. Regarding the pier depths, the soil report noted for piers 1000mm below ground, but the builder has since advised that piers between 1800-2700mm will be installed. I have considered going double storey to reduce the foot print of the house and site cost, but the savings would be around the same as the additional cost of going double storey. Unfortunately split level options are not available (perhaps I should've gone to a custom builder!) Re: Excessive site costs? 8May 27, 2016 4:22 pm We are currently doing a KDR in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne and our site costs were circa $60K on a sloping block with 7m fall over the block. The block was classed as "P" and the slab was modified "M" which required 59 piers ranging from 400-2800mm deep. Our build thread viewtopic.php?f=31&t=82369&p=1525857&hilit=fairhaven#p1525857 Re: Excessive site costs? 9May 27, 2016 6:57 pm All these variations in site-work costs on difficult blocks proves to me that new homebuilders should first endeavour to determine reasonable preliminary engineering costs before they hand over a deposit, caveat emptor comes to mind Gone are the days where a salesman says " we can sort all that out in the office after you have paid an initial deposit"...(LOL,that's code for come in spinner).. be prepared to walk. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Excessive site costs? 10May 27, 2016 7:12 pm Seems like a lot. We had about the same amount of fall with P class soil. Our costs were around 27k plus demolition (14k, could have gotten it cheaper but just got builder to do it all). Obviously there are a lot of variables that influence the price. I would look at retaining too. Get quotes for the same wall from three different places. When they come back insanely cheaper than Henleys price (before the margin), question it with them. Custom knockdown rebuild Newcastle NSW viewtopic.php?t=78271 Re: Excessive site costs? 11May 28, 2016 8:37 pm This is great, thanks everyone. Sounds like with Old Bloke's experience, cost under $60,000 is more reasonable, since there is more fall on his land. They did justify their cost but I can't help but feel that there's a lot of "spin" in it. During the sales process, I have made a point to myself to be hard on them, but they insisted that alll site costs will be confirmed after demolition (by then, the total deposit paid would be $10,000). I suppose I can still walk while it's early. Re: Excessive site costs? 12May 29, 2016 5:53 am mhouse This is great, thanks everyone Sounds like with Old Bloke's experience, cost under $60,000 is more reasonable, since there is more fall on his land. You can't say that unless you are comparing apples with apples..as site slope comparison is one thing you need to also compare, floor plan shape, wall type,etc,etc there are many variables for engineering details as stipulated in the codes to consider mhouse They did justify their cost but I can't help but feel that there's a lot of "spin" in it. During the sales process, I have made a point to myself to be hard on them, What do you expect him to say? that $10k will probably be the salesman's commission when your deal goes through, BTW, they generally just say enough to put the deal on the managers table..lol,everything else will ALWAYS be worked out later.. mhouse but they insisted that alll site costs will be confirmed after demolition (by then, the total deposit paid would be $10,000). I suppose Why, Clients can do their own demolition, site clean and retaining outside of the house plan an save some..most can't be bothered as they are happy to pay a fair price The geotechnical engineers report stipulated bearing capacity depth and footing classification. You can use the codes and that information provided in their report to do all the preliminary calculations yourself That's even before you hand over any money to the builder then armed with this information talk to 3 builders and make them sharpen their pencils.....get the gist mhouse I can still walk while it's early. Sure and that is ammunition for you along with your prelim site engineering estimates...be prepared for hard nose negotiations. IMHO that money (unsubstantiated costs & obscene commissions ) is better in your(the battlers) pocket. When/If time permits I'll put some useful information (ie G apps? Speadsheets? 3D Details? Steps and Processes? and let me think about it?) up on my Google community..stay tuned.. Anything specific you want? Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Excessive site costs? 13May 29, 2016 10:28 am We did similar. We are on a corner and had a 1 metre slope backwards. We bought in fill, levelled and retained the back and neighbour side first - that cost $15k. We didn't need to retain other side on second frontage. We got soil for free from adjacent blocks. Our site costs/foundation cost $37 through our builder because of all the extra piering, double mesh and thickened slab needed because of the ('uncontrolled') fill. We have terrible Extremely reactive soil: E-D (P). The P (Problem) was uncontrolled fill. We didn't get the fill compacted. We tried. It was a very difficult thing to arrange. I nearly gave up. Firstly, I couldn't find a builder who did not want to cut us down into a hole like our neighbours. And we were not having that. I was adamant I did not want to live in a hole. And I could not find anyone to do the fill/levelling that would compact it (to a standard that would give us a certificate). So we got levelling and retaining done first ourselves and paid more for the heavy duty slab. The $15k for levelling and retaining was cheap because we got free soil and the guy who did the retaining did levelling with his bobcat. Re: Excessive site costs? 14May 29, 2016 2:56 pm TomCat .... We didn't get the fill compacted. We tried...... did levelling with his bobcat. Hmmm.you should have used a larger front end loader as Bobcats are a bit too light weight and its harder to achieve deeper compaction? Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Excessive site costs? 15May 29, 2016 10:35 pm StructuralBIMGuy TomCat .... We didn't get the fill compacted. We tried...... did levelling with his bobcat. Hmmm.you should have used a larger front end loader as Bobcats are a bit too light weight and its harder to achieve deeper compaction? Thats not how to compact fill on a site .........front end loaded LOL Re: Excessive site costs? 16May 29, 2016 10:56 pm Compaction is achieve with a compactor & heavy earthmoving equipment this improves the process and reduces the number of compactor passes which can cause vibration damage to adjacent properties. Also compactors can't be used on slopes..HTH Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Excessive site costs? 17May 30, 2016 1:34 am This reminds me of the nightmare I had getting anyone to do anything ? Re: Excessive site costs? 18May 30, 2016 6:26 am TomCat This reminds me of the nightmare I had getting anyone to do anything ? We all deal with risk in different ways, some won't do it, some promote & greatly profit from the FUD factor(Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt), I prefer to analyse data and information and present it the best way I can, so clients can make informed decisions. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Excessive site costs? 20May 30, 2016 8:38 am insider Yes it's bad advice and people speaking out of their area of expertise Do tell what is your profession and area of expertise?..just curious as you are quick to criticize mine as a civil engineer insider Eg a software engineer speaking about earthworks First year engineering is common for mechanical,chemical,civil,electrical, software.etc Earthworks is taught 2nd year on in the civil engineering degree only, 3rd year geotech soil analysis is basic hand calc planar 2D analysis, Final year is FEM/multiphysics software 3D analysis.You need to start on the basic knowledge before they let you near any software.. Software engineers can't certify structures & civil works...hth Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs How good is Simeon?! Always taking time to help others out! Wish we were building in NSW and could work together. Thanks for all that you do! 7 6550 I am not sure whether Perth has its own way of doing things in regards to this. Most of Perth has class A (sandy soil), except for some areas near rivers or hills. 2 13053 Is anyone building with Mojo and have a recent site cost tender 0 15930 |