Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Apr 01, 2016 9:46 pm Further to my last post regarding a variation for an extra $2600 for a retaining wall. After a discussion with my husband they admitted they hadn't read their own plans correctly, they had make a mistake and had undercharged us by this amount. Would we have a leg to stand on if we refused to pay for their admitted mistake? They tried to slip the variation through hoping we wouldn't question it and out and out tried blackmailing us into signing immediatly, giving us no time to ask questions, but we really aren't that stupid (well maybe just a bit as we trusted these guys, in the past tense). Re: Do We Have The Right To Refuse To Pay This? 2Apr 01, 2016 10:16 pm My question would be, does your contract already have a retaining wall in it? If it does and its just they gave you the wrong price - well no I guess you don't have to accept it - its not your fault they gave you the wrong quote in the first place which you both accepted. That is what a fixed contract is - you both are agreeing on that price - once its accepted they can't change it - unless it was stated in the part of your contract that has - what is not included in this fixed price contract. This is how they got around my retaining wall I just had to sign for - it stated landscaping retaining walls are not included - and in theory my retaining wall isn't need for my build - however it is needed to stop my neighbours land sliding into my front corner area of my house. However if your contract stated the retaining wall in it and no changes are being made to it - then no I wouldn't sign for the variation - their fault they under quoted. ~Shellby~ GJ Bridgewater 203 11/3/2016 - Site Work Started 29/9/2016 - Handover 142 Work Days 6 Work Days Over https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=80174 Re: Do We Have The Right To Refuse To Pay This? 3Apr 01, 2016 11:24 pm shellby My question would be, does your contract already have a retaining wall in it? If it does and its just they gave you the wrong price - well no I guess you don't have to accept it - its not your fault they gave you the wrong quote in the first place which you both accepted. That is what a fixed contract is - you both are agreeing on that price - once its accepted they can't change it - unless it was stated in the part of your contract that has - what is not included in this fixed price contract. This is how they got around my retaining wall I just had to sign for - it stated landscaping retaining walls are not included - and in theory my retaining wall isn't need for my build - however it is needed to stop my neighbours land sliding into my front corner area of my house. However if your contract stated the retaining wall in it and no changes are being made to it - then no I wouldn't sign for the variation - their fault they under quoted. The retaining wall is on the plans and a 'pc' sum was in the quote which was on a par with the independant quotes we had. They literally made a miscalculation in pricing it which they have admitted to. Re: Do We Have The Right To Refuse To Pay This? 5Apr 02, 2016 11:04 am I don't think you can argue it if it was a provisional sum. However maybe you could ask if they will allow for the wall to built by one of the guys who provided you the independent quotes? Usually they wouldn't allow this but seeing as they admitted it was a mistake and they read the plans incorrectly maybe they will?? Or am I just expecting builders to have a heart!? Custom downslope build Build thread viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61873 Blog http://www.buildingroyalmanor.blogspot.com.au Re: Do We Have The Right To Refuse To Pay This? 6Apr 02, 2016 1:17 pm PS is always an estimate on builders part until they have a quote. For clients that means it could go up in price, or down, so I think they are being reasonable asking for the extra. Re: Do We Have The Right To Refuse To Pay This? 7Apr 02, 2016 3:13 pm Beazley77 PS is always an estimate on builders part until they have a quote. For clients that means it could go up in price, or down, so I think they are being reasonable asking for the extra. I would understand if at the time of the actual build something came up unexpectedly that increased the price. But these guys are professionals who drew up the plans themselves and prepared the quote but are now basically saying they hit the wrong button on the calculator. Surely they should have checks in place. Also they gave us a few hours to sign the variation and until pressed gave no explanation as to why there was one at all. I wonder if they know by admitting they are at fault we can contest it. Re: Do We Have The Right To Refuse To Pay This? 8Apr 02, 2016 4:57 pm I can't comment legally, but does it always come down to that? Why do so often people think it's ok to short cut builders.not pay final payments etc. If the price is fair for the job why wouldn't you pay it? Do you like to get paid for work? If the position was reversed would you want to work for nothing, give the additional cost is probably largely materials ? I would weigh up whether the price is right for the job and whether you want goodwill going forward Re: Do We Have The Right To Refuse To Pay This? 9Apr 02, 2016 9:24 pm Alot of people get hung up on the cost of things when building especially variations then stress to the max in the end its only money which you can continue to hopefully make for the next 30 years while paying the mortgage in the end is it worth the stress and aggravation trying to save that money has caused and will continue to in all reality if paying that money pushed you to the bring of being broke should you be building in the first place. If its just the principal of it all maybe leave the indignation at home and just get on with it all get the house built and let things go. Obviously this advice doesnt work if its a genuine builder mess up liked cracked slabs or walls falling down but this is one guy messing up at work one day sure to you its a dream to him its a job and we all mess up at work. Re: Do We Have The Right To Refuse To Pay This? 10Apr 03, 2016 8:36 pm tjilpi I can't comment legally, but does it always come down to that? Why do so often people think it's ok to short cut builders.not pay final payments etc. If the price is fair for the job why wouldn't you pay it? Do you like to get paid for work? If the position was reversed would you want to work for nothing, give the additional cost is probably largely materials ? I would weigh up whether the price is right for the job and whether you want goodwill going forward This isn't an independant builder but one of the large 'cookie cutter' home builders who are taking their 20% builders cut (the real reason I suspect they are insisting they must build the retaining wall, and the reason their quote is so far above everyone elses). Tommorrow they will be sending us a revised quote which we will only sign if it is fixed. Its not so much the cost but the principal of been threatened with long delays if we didn't return it signed within a few hours, all done by email with no explanation why it had jumped up so much. We'll just wait and see what tommorrow brings. Re: Do We Have The Right To Refuse To Pay This? 11Apr 03, 2016 8:47 pm Havocthemighty Alot of people get hung up on the cost of things when building especially variations then stress to the max in the end its only money which you can continue to hopefully make for the next 30 years while paying the mortgage in the end is it worth the stress and aggravation trying to save that money has caused and will continue to in all reality if paying that money pushed you to the bring of being broke should you be building in the first place. If its just the principal of it all maybe leave the indignation at home and just get on with it all get the house built and let things go. Obviously this advice doesnt work if its a genuine builder mess up liked cracked slabs or walls falling down but this is one guy messing up at work one day sure to you its a dream to him its a job and we all mess up at work. Haha, I wish we did have 30 years to earn more money but we are both on the unforgiving side of 50. We understand there will be variations, and have allowed a generous budget for these. But I thought (naively obviously) that these would be for issues that came up during the build, not bad office practices. Oddly enough the first quote came in $1000 more than what was in the final quote so it scares me somewhat that something that seems pretty straight forward to me, quoting on one retaining wall that they designed, could have been misquoted so often. Just what else have they got wrong? Tommorrow they will be sending through a revised quote, we will sign it if it is fixed. And, I would like an apology for trying to blackmail us into signing, is that too much to ask? Re: Do We Have The Right To Refuse To Pay This? 12Apr 03, 2016 9:59 pm Refer to your contract but long story short you don't have a leg to stand on. The shame about building contracts (MBA/HIA) is it gives the builder the right to increase the price due to: "discrepencies or errors in the documents adjustments to provisional sums variations to unforseen circumstances" [Clause 9] As you can see the builder can adjust prices for several reasons. I would however ask the builder for proof of how he came to that figure. E.g. invoices. I think you're entitled to that at a minimum. Hi Mofflepop, I would recommend finding a building designer to prepare plans, they should design to your specified budget. The benefit is you can tender the project out… 9 20638 I'm putting a new floor in my kitchen, slate flagging on a standard concrete slab. 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