To Hebel or not to Hebel....

Hi folks, I'm new to posting but have spent many hours scouring threads instead of sleeping (which I will regret when my kids get up at sparrow's fart!).

We're finalising our plans to build a double storey in Melb and our builder is offering Hebel Power Panels instead of traditional brick for nix. Having read the material, it sounds like a no brainer - quicker to install, good for sound/heat, nicer look to have both floors rendered...but other than the material from the makers, there is virtually no other info about it online (that I can find...and I'm a pretty good Googler!). No super horror stories, no "oh my gosh Hebel is the best thing ever because..." stories. So how's a gal to decide?!

I was hoping someone with experience (perhaps someone who has built with Hebel or installs it for a crust!) can help us decide if it's worth "the risk". Hubby is quite adamant about sticking to brick as it's a known quantity and doesn't want to take the plunge with Hebel without more info that's not direct from the mouth of the maker. Is it strong and sturdy? Can it survive the beating of a basketball being constantly bounced against it? Can you put big tiles on it for a feature wall? Will it crumble if you accidentally crash a lawn mower into it? If anyone can provide their two cents and weigh in on the debate, it'd be much appreciated. Gotta make a choice by mid April!!

Ta muchly in advance

You must not be as good a googler as you think

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1872011

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1816998

personally I like the look of brick, but the more I hear about hebel, the more I think it might be a good choice for the next one.

Hi Ponzu, thanks for your reply

I have seen those whirlpool posts but can't seem to find much else that doesn't look like it came straight from the manufacturer therr were a couple of people on there who were two thumbs up for Hebel which is positive, just not enough for me to sell it to hubby

Almost feels like there's a secret club of Hebel dwelling folk! Perhaps it's so good that noone is complaining about it online?

I think the whirlpool posts had a decent mix of positives and negatives from a consumer point of view. I don't think you'll find many scholarly opinions on the material on from Australian writers as it hasn't been used extensively residentially here for a significant amount of time. perhaps start searching using European Google extensions

The biggest thing I'd take away from those is that it's not render you'll get, but texture coat, if you're on reactive soil, expect cracking to be more obvious and expect maintenance on at least a yearly basis.

See my comment here on Hebel
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=82387&p=1520612#p1520612

Stewie

I wanted to use it, but I couldn't afford it. Plus I've only seen one volume builder who offers it.

I wanted to use it at one stage but thermally its performance relies heavily on installation...I just didn't trust that the tradies were Hebel geniuses and I read some horror stories about this very conundrum that turned me back to brick. Even then the R rating isnt a huge difference anyhow. Anyone can be 'trained' to install it but doesn't mean it will be spot on. I read a fellow homeoner's (forget his name) experience and they had to pull it all down and start again. I know mojo offer it free...I guess it saves them money as in theory it's quicker to install. I googled the hell out of it and asked my mate who works for csr. It's a great material but until the teething problems with installers are sorted volume builds to me are a tad risky using it. We are spending so much on our build I just wasn't willing to take that leap! Good luck with it all

That's how my hubby feels - that we are spending so much on the build that it's "too risky" to go with something that's more "unknown" compared to brick. The sales consultant said that CSR install it...but maybe she meant people that were qualified by CSR? Might need to clarify. I am just reading the material and thinking that if you have the option to get Hebel and it's better than brick in this way and that, why not!! Surely it's been tested and rated and wouldn't be offered if it wasn't a sturdy material.

But conversely I don't want to be cop the blame should something go wrong during/after the build...!!

Constant flip flopping is tiring...but need to decide soon....

Yes, it has been tested and rated and seems to weather relatively well compared to a lot of other external cladding materials however as others have noted the best product in the world is going to look pretty ordinary relatively quickly if it is installed by morons.
As in my comment in that link above, I've seen a few that looked OK and a few that had a lot of cracks. The difference probably had nothing to do with the product and everything to do with the installers. Lack of training, lack of skill, lack of care - take your pick.
Get someone who has the right training and attitude and installs the battens correctly with all the right glue and fixings not to mention expansion gaps as required and it should last you for years - crack free.

Stewie

I don't know that CSR will install it...I think they train the tradies to install it. Stewie is spot on about the battens, fixings and expansion gaps. If they are sloppy it may be impossible to tell at first but the thermal and sound pluses that are sold with Hebel will be lost and then the ugly cracks will appear. Who knows what other knock on effects after that. It also requires maintenance (cleaning and painting) as time goes on which isn't a huge deal but something to consider. I do think in time it will become a huge part of the volume build industry and more and more accepted as long as the industry takes its installation seriously and doesn't ruin its reputation at the outset.

Hi All. I have just joined this forum tonight & was just looking through posts out of interest. Funny that I should find this one on Hebel, as I have a question on Hebel also, which I will post later.
Our house is an old fibro house that had horrible PVC cladding on it when we bought it. After a few years of renos inside I did a lot of research before installing power panel (not Hebel blocks...big difference).
IMO powerpanel is a brilliant product & I wouldnt worry too much about how good the tradesmen are. If I can install this with my Father In Law, then just about anyone can. I'm not saying they can't blow it as there as some very poor tradesmen out there. My F-I-L Eric was about 80 and an old joiner who knew his stuff but besides the weight of the blocks (about 70 - 80 kgs from memory) they are simple to install & even easier in new builds as they can screw them in from the inside. My neighbour liked it so much he did it as well.
The only thing I don't like was the fact that the insulating properties were not as great as I expected. This house is still red hot in summer & cold in winter but I wasn't able to install batts in the wall as I only had about a 25 - 30mm gap between the fibro wall & the inside of the PP....not a problem with a new build. I could have installed Hardiplank or similar & I did consider that but in the end went with PP because I really wanted a rendered finish & also because I had seen quite a few houses done with planks & most of them had waves & twists due to the fact that studs are not in line & also not plumb in to out. It is very difficult to stop that happening unless you have the wall lining off & can nail new studs onto old studs to get everything in line. Last thing I wanted to do was take off old fibro most probably with Asbestos in it so the best thing was to go over it. I also wanted the brick piers covered up so if there is anyone out there with a fibro house & wants to upgrade cheaply PP is the way to go.
However, I did make a mistake by not following the advice of Hebel completely. They say to leave an expansion joint near windows & doors & I think every 6m or so as well. I didn't do that & paid the price by it cracking even though it was easy to fix. I do have 1 crack in a small area that has been like that for a few years & I haven't bothered to fix it. No others have appeared near it or any where else. The expansion joints I have now put in actually break the wall up a bit & add to the house so it was a major mistake of mine not to do it in the 1st place.
The coating you put on can make a difference also. I wanted sand/cement render & my mate next door went with polymer render. Polymer is more flexible but does not give as nice a finish IMO...it also cost him a lot more. I put galv metal lathe nailed on with clouts & some screws so that the render would stick to it. I got a brilliant job out of it and a transformed house very cheaply. Even when some panels were proud of each other due to studs in/out, same problem with the Hardi but an easier fix, the render got all those uneven sections out. Thats another expense you have to factor in of course (plus paint) because with face brick its finished. I have painted this once & it's been finished about 15yrs now . At Shellcove near here many of the new homes are PP & we are talking an upmarket area...no cheap houses in here.
With the left over panels I had I threw up 2 stud walls in our pagola area & screwed the panels straight to it..easy as pie & got that included in the render job.
No dramas at all if you want to put tiles on it. The only issue I have had is how to fix items such as a gate post due to the makeup of Hebel PP. It is lightweight reinforced concrete & does not fix well using dynabolts. Due to the action of a dynabolt pulling towards you it will pull out every time. You need to use fixings that screw in, not out. This can be made easier if you plan very well where you may want certain items & you can install timber behind before putting on the panel & just use long screws through the Hebel. I wish I had though of that as I wouldn't have an issue with the carport I want to attach to it now. It's not a dififcult problem, I'm just looking for the neatest outcome so hopefully someone can help me with that problem. One last thing, we are on sand here & have never had a cracked cornice so movement is next to nothing but I can't say what may happen if you are on clay. Shellcove is built on just about the hardest rock you can get (next to a blue metal quarry) & as I said, heaps of PP in there.
Good luck whichever way you go as brick is brilliant product also. Sorry for the long first post!

You obviously haven't seem some of the botched installation jobs I and others on this forum have !




You should have removed all the asbestos sheeting. That way you could have installed R 2.5 batts in the wall and had a much better outcome thermal wise.

Stewie

Try google "Thermalite blocks perth"
Also try "Autoclaved aerated concrete"
Form your own opinion based on design, engineering and material mechanical properties AFAIK no codes

Had it and what never do it again, damages very easy

We are getting Hebel for our home and have heard mostly good reports about it. We are also using in independent inspector who used to be a builder and they spoke highly of it as well. We are combining it with good insulation and double glazed windows.