I've yet to see photos of the perfect build
Structural Engineer..Details, Photos,Help Needed, Q&A?
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Please post photos and ask questions..preferably before the work is covered up, completed or gone past inspection stages & payment .etc
I've yet to see photos of the perfect build
I've yet to see photos of the perfect build
That is mighty generous of you. Thanks for offer. I will keep it in mind. I just have a block of land and have yet not had ground broken. I am sure issues will come up from time to time over the next 6 months. I am not expecting a perfect build.
There's no skin off my back to take a quick look at some photos..
I see the same photos appearing on different build threads and I am answering the same questions over and over, so its easier to start a thread in one spot.
Remember... Structural non compliance has to be dealt with by a Structural engineer. Reasons for non compliance are
1. Poor documentation eg. Specifications, Details and Engineering...
2.Cheap quotes often suggests to me things are left out, incorrectly/poorly placed, materials substituted, trades not supervised, etc.
3.Alternatively, Expensive quotes, branding and slick marketing doesn't mean you are getting a superior product either.
Basically,know what you are getting and be the judge yourself.
4. Fix problems as they occur, as a contractor I know I am happy to redo/alter/change things while I am on site if I have to come back it is a PITA.
5. As an engineer and specialist repair contractor I have seen many changes in the industry some good some bad, LOL I've always been able to predict where the work will be in the next 10,20 & 30 years and structural repairs is a boom business..
Examples to follow!
I see the same photos appearing on different build threads and I am answering the same questions over and over, so its easier to start a thread in one spot.
Remember... Structural non compliance has to be dealt with by a Structural engineer. Reasons for non compliance are
1. Poor documentation eg. Specifications, Details and Engineering...
2.Cheap quotes often suggests to me things are left out, incorrectly/poorly placed, materials substituted, trades not supervised, etc.
3.Alternatively, Expensive quotes, branding and slick marketing doesn't mean you are getting a superior product either.
Basically,know what you are getting and be the judge yourself.
4. Fix problems as they occur, as a contractor I know I am happy to redo/alter/change things while I am on site if I have to come back it is a PITA.
5. As an engineer and specialist repair contractor I have seen many changes in the industry some good some bad, LOL I've always been able to predict where the work will be in the next 10,20 & 30 years and structural repairs is a boom business..
Examples to follow!
As an example of what we are up against especially with volume builders here in Victoria.
SaveH20 did some sums for me about my roof catchment area, pitch, downpipe size and size of guttering including the rainfall averages and intensity in area I am about to build. All done via the correct calculations as SaveH20 knows his stuff. It was discovered that my builder if using the industry standard 115mm quad slotted guttering would fail to comply with code for plumbing and that slightly larger guttering was required for compliance. I have bought the issue via email up a month or more before my build began only to be replied to via email that if I wanted I could add larger downpipes or add a down pipe extra but that cost would be an extra on me.
I replied as a matter of principle and not cost that it was not up to me to pay extra for compliance to building and plumbing code. It was up to my builder to supply a class 1a building that was up to code requirements. No reply as yet. I am keeping email replies for ammunition just in case on my H2 classified site area on my waffle pod slab, I ever get slab heave sufficient to cause slab damage. I will record any occasion I get gutter overflow of rain water in the meantime for further evidence to support a case against the builder if worst comes to worst.
This is an example of the sort of issues owners face when building. I believe I am right in saying compliance is everything. Maybe we deserve a house that complies even when we choose a Volume builder for whatever reason we make that choice.
SaveH20 did some sums for me about my roof catchment area, pitch, downpipe size and size of guttering including the rainfall averages and intensity in area I am about to build. All done via the correct calculations as SaveH20 knows his stuff. It was discovered that my builder if using the industry standard 115mm quad slotted guttering would fail to comply with code for plumbing and that slightly larger guttering was required for compliance. I have bought the issue via email up a month or more before my build began only to be replied to via email that if I wanted I could add larger downpipes or add a down pipe extra but that cost would be an extra on me.
I replied as a matter of principle and not cost that it was not up to me to pay extra for compliance to building and plumbing code. It was up to my builder to supply a class 1a building that was up to code requirements. No reply as yet. I am keeping email replies for ammunition just in case on my H2 classified site area on my waffle pod slab, I ever get slab heave sufficient to cause slab damage. I will record any occasion I get gutter overflow of rain water in the meantime for further evidence to support a case against the builder if worst comes to worst.
This is an example of the sort of issues owners face when building. I believe I am right in saying compliance is everything. Maybe we deserve a house that complies even when we choose a Volume builder for whatever reason we make that choice.
Goody59, if the cost is not great why not go the larger spec as a preventive measure. See if the builder will swallow some of the upgrade cost. It would be a serious nut ache to try and take action years down the track.
Goody59, if the cost is not great why not go the larger spec as a preventive measure. See if the builder will swallow some of the upgrade cost. It would be a serious nut ache to try and take action years down the track.
I am waiting for a reply after I told builder that compliance should be on their coin. I may change my stand but not before builder replies as to the non compliance issue raised once more after I refused to pay extra for such compliance.
Some builders are mischievous and will upgrade you at a time when it favours them and the costs maybe huge. go figure
I would have to agree non-compliance is a major problem and the system is geared to extreme failure cases that involve huge property costs, injury etc, unfortunately then it becomes a legal feast.
Years ago it was very difficult & costly to link & prove ( in-determinant failures and cause/effects using time dependant variables eg. Storm water->Soil bearing capacity->Structural stress-> failure), not so these days with software simulations.
It is a whole new ball game. Collect photos/data and legally you need to advise the builder accordingly..If they don't act immediately to mitigate or solve the problems then its a waiting game.
I would have to agree non-compliance is a major problem and the system is geared to extreme failure cases that involve huge property costs, injury etc, unfortunately then it becomes a legal feast.
Years ago it was very difficult & costly to link & prove ( in-determinant failures and cause/effects using time dependant variables eg. Storm water->Soil bearing capacity->Structural stress-> failure), not so these days with software simulations.
It is a whole new ball game. Collect photos/data and legally you need to advise the builder accordingly..If they don't act immediately to mitigate or solve the problems then its a waiting game.
It was discovered that my builder if using the industry standard 115mm quad slotted guttering would fail to comply with code for plumbing and that slightly larger guttering was required for compliance. I have bought the issue via email up a month or more before my build began only to be replied to via email that if I wanted I could add larger downpipes or add a down pipe extra but that cost would be an extra on me.
Hi goody59,
I have only just read this thread.
The builder is clearly deficient in his regulatory knowledge and their applicable calculations as fitting bigger downpipes is not the answer, the gutter's cross sectional area needs to be compliant with the roof area drained to each downpipe. The minimum downpipe size is then determined by the gutter's cross sectional area.
Fitting additional downpipes does lessen the roof area drained to each downpipe but for aesthetics, fitting larger gutters and retaining the same number of downpipes is a better choice.
Your builder is effectively saying that unless you pay extra, they will deliver a house that has non compliant roof drainage yet their clients should have a reasonable expectation that the house design that they have presented will meet compliance.
Compliance also does not guarantee good design and poorly written regulations and poor downpipe positioning will often see gutters overflow during rain intensities that fall way short of the 1:20 Average Recurrence Interval (ARI) that the eaves gutter drainage regulations are based that supposedly ensures that the gutters and downpipes can drain without overflowing.
A frequent example of poor design is when an upper roof area drains a concentrated flow of water via a spreader to the end of a gutter on a lower roof area but the downpipe is fitted around the corner on the next wall for aesthetics. If the wall area between the lower and upper roof is also facing the weather, then the flow of water to the end of the lower gutter is even greater.
The GOOD and the BAD are shown below.
Some builders are mischievous and will upgrade you at a time when it favours them and the costs maybe huge. go figure
I would have to agree non-compliance is a major problem and the system is geared to extreme failure cases that involve huge property costs, injury etc, unfortunately then it becomes a legal feast.
Years ago it was very difficult & costly to link & prove ( in-determinant failures and cause/effects using time dependant variables eg. Storm water->Soil bearing capacity->Structural stress-> failure), not so these days with software simulations.
It is a whole new ball game. Collect photos/data and legally you need to advise the builder accordingly..If they don't act immediately to mitigate or solve the problems then its a waiting game.
I would have to agree non-compliance is a major problem and the system is geared to extreme failure cases that involve huge property costs, injury etc, unfortunately then it becomes a legal feast.
Years ago it was very difficult & costly to link & prove ( in-determinant failures and cause/effects using time dependant variables eg. Storm water->Soil bearing capacity->Structural stress-> failure), not so these days with software simulations.
It is a whole new ball game. Collect photos/data and legally you need to advise the builder accordingly..If they don't act immediately to mitigate or solve the problems then its a waiting game.
Thanks for reply. I will see what happens this week. I have just today asked for a reply as to whether my roof drainage complies to Plumbing Code- yes or no answer. I will see what reply I get now. I have said I wanted emailed reply for my records. Let's see what happens now.
Thanks.
It was discovered that my builder if using the industry standard 115mm quad slotted guttering would fail to comply with code for plumbing and that slightly larger guttering was required for compliance. I have bought the issue via email up a month or more before my build began only to be replied to via email that if I wanted I could add larger downpipes or add a down pipe extra but that cost would be an extra on me.
Hi goody59,
I have only just read this thread.
The builder is clearly deficient in his regulatory knowledge and their applicable calculations as fitting bigger downpipes is not the answer, the gutter's cross sectional area needs to be compliant with the roof area drained to each downpipe. The minimum downpipe size is then determined by the gutter's cross sectional area.
Fitting additional downpipes does lessen the roof area drained to each downpipe but for aesthetics, fitting larger gutters and retaining the same number of downpipes is a better choice.
Your builder is effectively saying that unless you pay extra, they will deliver a house that has non compliant roof drainage yet their clients should have a reasonable expectation that the house design that they have presented will meet compliance.
Compliance also does not guarantee good design and poorly written regulations and poor downpipe positioning will often see gutters overflow during rain intensities that fall way short of the 1:20 Average Recurrence Interval (ARI) that the eaves gutter drainage regulations are based that supposedly ensures that the gutters and downpipes can drain without overflowing.
A frequent example of poor design is when an upper roof area drains a concentrated flow of water via a spreader to the end of a gutter on a lower roof area but the downpipe is fitted around the corner on the next wall for aesthetics. If the wall area between the lower and upper roof is also facing the weather, then the flow of water to the end of the lower gutter is even greater.
The GOOD and the BAD are shown below.
Thanks SaveH20. I know you have already looked at my concerns and provided excellent knowledge based assistance. I made my builder aware of my concerns and am now waiting on a rethink of their attitude towards those concerns now raised bearing in mind that I will be recording their response and use it against them if required. Thanks again for your ever so helpful assistance in the matter. I will place faith in all you have told me anytime against my builder's response.
Thank you for the invitation
We have bricks overhanging off the slab 20-40mm on every side of the house. We understand the BCA allows a tolerance of up to 15mm. Could you kindly share your knowledge ... Ie. the best way to rectify soundly so we can ask our builder to address. This is our forever home, so don't want problems surfacing in 10-20 years.
STAGE OF BUILD: It's a two storey house. We are approaching 'lockup' but we don't want them starting internal work yet as we've had 2cm water inside on floor for two months. Frames are sitting in water. Downpipes have been draining into the lower storey areas that do not yet have roof on. (There are a number of other issues too)
Thank you for any advice
We have bricks overhanging off the slab 20-40mm on every side of the house. We understand the BCA allows a tolerance of up to 15mm. Could you kindly share your knowledge ... Ie. the best way to rectify soundly so we can ask our builder to address. This is our forever home, so don't want problems surfacing in 10-20 years.
STAGE OF BUILD: It's a two storey house. We are approaching 'lockup' but we don't want them starting internal work yet as we've had 2cm water inside on floor for two months. Frames are sitting in water. Downpipes have been draining into the lower storey areas that do not yet have roof on. (There are a number of other issues too)
Thank you for any advice
Hi Tomcat
IMO that overhang will need to be repaired
This will depend on whether or not you intend having
a path/sloping apron around the perimeter?
Also do you have the original engineering drawings/details
for the edge beam/footings?
IMO that overhang will need to be repaired
This will depend on whether or not you intend having
a path/sloping apron around the perimeter?
Also do you have the original engineering drawings/details
for the edge beam/footings?
Hi StructuralBIMGuy,
I write further to my thread "Extra Slab Costs due to 2m of Controlled Fill"
To recap : I am building a 22sq single story house on recently developed vacant land in the Keysborough area of Melbourne.
I have just received a contract from the builder which includes an item for an Engineer designed concrete waffle slab (Class P) of $10K.
The Soil Test report classifies the site as ‘P’ due to the depth of filling encountered. Fill was encountered to a depth of 2000mm, 2200mm and 2100mm respectively in the 3 bore holes.
My question is : Is $10K a reasonable price for the upgrades involved ?
The builders breakdown of the costs are as follows :
1. Upgrade slab to 385mm overall height including additional concrete, 300mm high waffle pod and Upgrade slab steel including 1-N12 to internal rib, 3-L12 to external rib and additional N12 to top of external rib in lieu of Class M with 310mm overall height, 225mm high waffle pod and steel consisting of SL72, 1-N12 internal and 3-L11 to bottom of external – Charge $4,490.00
2. Concrete bored piers to the Garage. Note: We have minimum charges from our concrete contractor for them to make special trip to site to complete piers – Charge $1,575.00
3. Extend concrete waffle pod slab into the Front Porch and Outdoor Living to accommodate soil reactivity as noted in the Soil Report – Charge $3,605.00
The following are the slab specifications :
Your comments / thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
I write further to my thread "Extra Slab Costs due to 2m of Controlled Fill"
To recap : I am building a 22sq single story house on recently developed vacant land in the Keysborough area of Melbourne.
I have just received a contract from the builder which includes an item for an Engineer designed concrete waffle slab (Class P) of $10K.
The Soil Test report classifies the site as ‘P’ due to the depth of filling encountered. Fill was encountered to a depth of 2000mm, 2200mm and 2100mm respectively in the 3 bore holes.
My question is : Is $10K a reasonable price for the upgrades involved ?
The builders breakdown of the costs are as follows :
1. Upgrade slab to 385mm overall height including additional concrete, 300mm high waffle pod and Upgrade slab steel including 1-N12 to internal rib, 3-L12 to external rib and additional N12 to top of external rib in lieu of Class M with 310mm overall height, 225mm high waffle pod and steel consisting of SL72, 1-N12 internal and 3-L11 to bottom of external – Charge $4,490.00
2. Concrete bored piers to the Garage. Note: We have minimum charges from our concrete contractor for them to make special trip to site to complete piers – Charge $1,575.00
3. Extend concrete waffle pod slab into the Front Porch and Outdoor Living to accommodate soil reactivity as noted in the Soil Report – Charge $3,605.00
The following are the slab specifications :
Your comments / thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Belongabank
The extra over is pretty easy to work out and check and from the information you have provided
I suggest you do check them. How
1. Determine what was allowed in the original price
2. From your floor plans (not provided) you will need to work out l/m, m^2 (Areas) and m^3 (Volumes)
3. In AS 2870-2011 figure 3.4 lists a simple to follow table for waffle raft based on
Site classification, Type of construction, Data for beams and slabs ie concrete and rebar
4. Use a spreadsheet to calculate the extra-over and apply realistic rates and builders margin
5. This will provide you with the information you need to evaluate the extra costs
Please leave a PM for further assistance
The extra over is pretty easy to work out and check and from the information you have provided
I suggest you do check them. How
1. Determine what was allowed in the original price
2. From your floor plans (not provided) you will need to work out l/m, m^2 (Areas) and m^3 (Volumes)
3. In AS 2870-2011 figure 3.4 lists a simple to follow table for waffle raft based on
Site classification, Type of construction, Data for beams and slabs ie concrete and rebar
4. Use a spreadsheet to calculate the extra-over and apply realistic rates and builders margin
5. This will provide you with the information you need to evaluate the extra costs
Please leave a PM for further assistance
Hi Tomcat
IMO that overhang will need to be repaired
This will depend on whether or not you intend having
a path/sloping apron around the perimeter?
Also do you have the original engineering drawings/details
for the edge beam/footings?
IMO that overhang will need to be repaired
This will depend on whether or not you intend having
a path/sloping apron around the perimeter?
Also do you have the original engineering drawings/details
for the edge beam/footings?
Thank you
Our soil is E-D P - extremely reactive clay with uncontrolled fill. We levelled our block (built up at back).
We do intend to have a 1 metre wide concrete path around perimeter to protect slab from surface water. We did a little research and found suggestions of fitting angle iron to the slab to support the overhanging bricks. My husband is mechanically minded (not an engineer of course) and he thought this sounded reasonable if the angle iron was galvanized and say at least 5mm thick. What do you think though please person of knowledge ... aka Mr Structural Engineer
Hi Tomcat
There are probably a few ways you could support the brick overhang but
I am not sure if I would go with a galvanised angle in contact with the ground
Irrespective of what the ground pH levels are like?
Since the builder is responsible for the fix, I would be leaning more towards
a concrete ledge incorporating the path perhaps (just a thought)?
Does your contract have your builder putting in the concrete path by chance?
There are probably a few ways you could support the brick overhang but
I am not sure if I would go with a galvanised angle in contact with the ground
Irrespective of what the ground pH levels are like?
Since the builder is responsible for the fix, I would be leaning more towards
a concrete ledge incorporating the path perhaps (just a thought)?
Does your contract have your builder putting in the concrete path by chance?
Hi StructuralBIMGuy
appreciate your opinion on the below support beam(s) that support our first level addition (masterbedroom that is supported over deck area) and also the welding used for the galv posts. The picture was taken approx. 3-4 weeks after install and has remained exposed for approx. 8-9mths as the reno is not yet complete!!!
thanks in advance
oh the engineering plans advise the beams were to be 200 UB 22
appreciate your opinion on the below support beam(s) that support our first level addition (masterbedroom that is supported over deck area) and also the welding used for the galv posts. The picture was taken approx. 3-4 weeks after install and has remained exposed for approx. 8-9mths as the reno is not yet complete!!!
thanks in advance
oh the engineering plans advise the beams were to be 200 UB 22
Hi Chica
Unfortunately. the photos aren't visible?, and sometimes when they are they may be difficult to analyse
Also can I request the photos be taken a particular way as follows (which makes its easier,
1. Photos depending on where they are taken from should be top or bottom Isometric, also front on elevation if possible
2. Site photos should include a wide shot showing the entire member, eg entire beam
and close ups of the support eg wall supports, joist connection and any members that you think are relevant
3. Include a reference scale eg tape measure in the photos
4. A photo of the plan or sketch of the room where the beam sits also include a scale &/or Dimensions. eg Span between supports walls
5. My engineering details (3D) in most cases can be matched to your photo view
Some examples are here on my Google+ account . BTW you will need a Google account, gmail, etc to access
https://plus.google.com/u/2/communities ... 2205285216
Unfortunately. the photos aren't visible?, and sometimes when they are they may be difficult to analyse
Also can I request the photos be taken a particular way as follows (which makes its easier,
1. Photos depending on where they are taken from should be top or bottom Isometric, also front on elevation if possible
2. Site photos should include a wide shot showing the entire member, eg entire beam
and close ups of the support eg wall supports, joist connection and any members that you think are relevant
3. Include a reference scale eg tape measure in the photos
4. A photo of the plan or sketch of the room where the beam sits also include a scale &/or Dimensions. eg Span between supports walls
5. My engineering details (3D) in most cases can be matched to your photo view
Some examples are here on my Google+ account . BTW you will need a Google account, gmail, etc to access
https://plus.google.com/u/2/communities ... 2205285216
Hi StructuralBIMGuy
Just want to ask you please about demolish and build of a new single dwelling development next to our house.
DA copy sent to us,noted that the fill is 450mm and retaining wall to be built by client. Now that the house and the retaining wall are completed, we noted that the retaining wall at its highest is 900mm. Could this possibly happen legally?
Also, the boundary fence is not on top of the retaining wall but beside it on the lower level. Our fence which is 1800mm is effectively now 900mm. As a result we have now problems with privacy both visual and acoustic.
There are 2 windows from their house, that look straight into our veranda and no privacy screening was required. Is this legal? Sunlight coming to our veranda had also been reduced by the added height of the fill. What are the rules about privacy? We are in NSW.
We approached the council and they informed us that the noncompliance is just minor and no action required.
Yesterday we also found out that no DA was given for the construction of the retaining wall yet from what we read, a structural engineer is required to approve the job if it is above 600mm.
What can we do? Any suggestion would be very much appreciated.
Note: StructuralBIMGuy Apology for the mistake of addressing it to a wrong person.
Just want to ask you please about demolish and build of a new single dwelling development next to our house.
DA copy sent to us,noted that the fill is 450mm and retaining wall to be built by client. Now that the house and the retaining wall are completed, we noted that the retaining wall at its highest is 900mm. Could this possibly happen legally?
Also, the boundary fence is not on top of the retaining wall but beside it on the lower level. Our fence which is 1800mm is effectively now 900mm. As a result we have now problems with privacy both visual and acoustic.
There are 2 windows from their house, that look straight into our veranda and no privacy screening was required. Is this legal? Sunlight coming to our veranda had also been reduced by the added height of the fill. What are the rules about privacy? We are in NSW.
We approached the council and they informed us that the noncompliance is just minor and no action required.
Yesterday we also found out that no DA was given for the construction of the retaining wall yet from what we read, a structural engineer is required to approve the job if it is above 600mm.
What can we do? Any suggestion would be very much appreciated.
Note: StructuralBIMGuy Apology for the mistake of addressing it to a wrong person.
Thanks for the generous offer StructuralBIMguy.
Here are some questions relating to my new timber framed house I'm currently designing and planning to owner/build in central QLD. It's on the coast, remote site, steep slope (average pier height 2.4m), soil type S, wind rating C4, fire rating BAL19.
(1) do you have a recommendation on a steel subfloor system to use ? (I've looked at Stratco, Stramit/SteelMax, Spantec, OneSteel Duragal.)
(2) I favour steel subfloor over timber subfloor so I can get longer bearer/joist spans for the same price. Is my reasoning correct?
(2) re timber rafters & beams: for similar section sizes are LVLs stronger than LGLs and solid timber?
(3) do you have a recommendation on how to protect a steel sub floor system against corrosion on the coast? (I'm currently planning to paint it with Ormonoid SilverShield bitumen paint.)
(4) re bracing & strength: would a 120mm timber stud for external walls offer any significant advantages over the traditional 90mm stud? (I'm guessing it would but by how much ?)
Here are some questions relating to my new timber framed house I'm currently designing and planning to owner/build in central QLD. It's on the coast, remote site, steep slope (average pier height 2.4m), soil type S, wind rating C4, fire rating BAL19.
(1) do you have a recommendation on a steel subfloor system to use ? (I've looked at Stratco, Stramit/SteelMax, Spantec, OneSteel Duragal.)
(2) I favour steel subfloor over timber subfloor so I can get longer bearer/joist spans for the same price. Is my reasoning correct?
(2) re timber rafters & beams: for similar section sizes are LVLs stronger than LGLs and solid timber?
(3) do you have a recommendation on how to protect a steel sub floor system against corrosion on the coast? (I'm currently planning to paint it with Ormonoid SilverShield bitumen paint.)
(4) re bracing & strength: would a 120mm timber stud for external walls offer any significant advantages over the traditional 90mm stud? (I'm guessing it would but by how much ?)
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