Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Jul 02, 2008 4:58 pm Hi,
We are new to this site and the building game, so hope you guys can help. We have recently bought a plot of land in the Gold Coast hinterland and during the survey prior to beginning the build, we have discovered that the people who built the house next door to ours built their drive on our land (a 2 1/2 metre across x 40 metre length area). Our options seem to be a) get the new owners to take their drive up and move it - we really dont want to do that to them, b) sell that piece of land to the neighbours, or c) sell that piece of land as an easement to the neighbours. Our question is, has anyone come across this situation before, and how would we go about getting a valuation on either selling the land to them or selling the easement. This land is part of our building envelope and so we assume that would make it of more value? We have got about an acre, mostly unuseable reserve. Many thanks to anyone that can help, Steve Re: Neighbours drive on our land! 2Jul 02, 2008 5:01 pm Firstly
Have you talked to your council? mmm....donuts Homer Simpson 1956- Links: Site Costs Ready Reckoner | H1 Addiction Medical Advice | Château TDL: The Backyard Re: Neighbours drive on our land! 3Jul 02, 2008 6:20 pm Hi Mike,
Thanks for your reply. The council and the BSA think the neighbour should put it right by taking up their drive and giving us the land back, but there isn't anywhere else that the neighbour can put their drive, the garage is at the side of the house and so they need a turning point at the top to drive into it. Thats why the builder of the previous owner decided to just build on our land instead, they had to bring the drive out to allow that to happen. And we feel sorry for the new owners as they say they didnt have a clue until now and are really worried that they will have to pull up their whole drive and move it. It just seems to be an easier option to try and find out how much the land is worth and get them to buy it from us, but we dont know who to get to do an independant valuation on the piece of land concerned, either as an easement or to sell. Steve Re: Neighbours drive on our land! 4Jul 02, 2008 8:16 pm Hi Stevo,
Am I reading your posts correctly in that the people who now own next door were not the ones that built the house? If that is the case wouldn't the previous owners have some degree of liability as they intruded onto your land and it was not disclosed to the new owners? Wouldn't that have legal ramifications on the sale? What about the builder who built their garage like that? What about the council official who gave planning approval in the first place to build the dwelling with no access to the garage from their own land? Seems to me like someone should be liable to sort out this mess and neither you or your neighbour are the ones to do so. I'd be seeking legal advice, as you and your neighbour have been left with a mess that is your problem, but you had no hand in creating. Jo I leave you to fend for yourself, figure things out yourself. Terrence Malick Re: Neighbours drive on our land! 5Jul 02, 2008 8:32 pm I'm sure the title search & council reports you get when doing the full search on a property you are buying should have uncovered this.
Either the new owners are playing dumb, and already know about it, or they had a very poor conveyancing solicitior...... Re: Neighbours drive on our land! 6Jul 03, 2008 12:08 am if they have taken up a portion of your property at the front why dont you talk with the neighbour about the options and also include the possibilty of taking an eqaual portion of their land at the rear of the property? gives you a bit more backyard and all you need to do is move the fence, and maybe get the changes recorded by council. Re: Neighbours drive on our land! 7Jul 03, 2008 8:24 am Sucks to be your neighbour.
When they bought the place, if they had have done the right thing, they should have checked the measurements of their block to ensure what they were buying. The driveway in the wrong place would have shown up instantly. Too bad...so sad. Tell them to punch a hole in the side of their garage and drive straight in. Re: Neighbours drive on our land! 8Jul 03, 2008 8:59 am I think whilst there have been some obviously some st*ff ups along the way - builders building in the wrong spot, conveyancer solicitors who haven't picked up errors, or previous/current neighbours may be being liberal with the truth....Stevo it sounds like you are trying to get around this with minimal inconvenience to all parties.....and probably avoid a major legal bill.
Steve, there is a rule of land ownership which is called "adverse possession". The doctrine prevents someone who has used land for a long period of time, believing it to his/her land, from being ejected by someone who discovers a technical defect relating to the original boundaries. The period of time is 15 years, see http://www.lawyersconveyancing.com.au/advposs.asp . If you don't do anything about this eventually the person who is occupying the land can make a claim for your land and transfer it's ownership without consideration (cash) to you. Other examples of this occur in inner suburbs where people take over old right of ways. So take from that, that you need to do something. If you read through the link you can see that these things need to be done to prove "adverse possession" and that gives you a hint of what would be put in train for your case - engaging a surveyor, getting the land valued by a registered land valuer, getting titles changed, conveyancing (no offence but probably not the one you used....). So take from that, that unfortunately it gets complicated. Reading between the lines you want to minimise costs and inconvenience - I'm hearing you - but you need to seek legal advice. Piranha suggestion is a good one - you may be able to exchange land by mutual consent and avoid stamp duty costs to your neighbour (which is nice of you) bit like transferring property to a partner for "natural love and affection" (a legal term) there should be minimal costs involved in this. The issue I see is that you say the land is on your building envelope - so how will this effect your building design? I think that decides what you objective will be when seeking legal advice - do I want the land back to get a workable building or do I accept what's happened because I can live with the remaining envelope and change the titles to suit. Never forget....if people are being non cooperative you can always go the full bloody minded legal approach....it is your land in some way someone could be made to pay and it shouldn't cost you a zak....just may be a painful path. Sorry, long winded post but I'm trying to interpret your intentions. mmm....donuts Homer Simpson 1956- Links: Site Costs Ready Reckoner | H1 Addiction Medical Advice | Château TDL: The Backyard Re: Neighbours drive on our land! 10Jul 04, 2008 10:22 am Thanks so much to everyone who has replied, it has been so helpful, sorry I havent responded but I have been chasing my tail for the last few days with this build!
Mike, your post is really helpful and informative, I will read through the link thoroughly and get some wheels in motion. The neighbours have always been extremely nice to us (maybe they did know!) and so we really dont want to start upsetting them even before we move in! It is possible for us to move our house across by a few metres on the building envelope. the only thing is this may cause us other problems such as being too near the bush (catogory 3 fire restrictions) and the pool may have to be underpinned. Obviously, whilst trying to keep everyone happy, we still need to get back any of these costs incurred which are none of our fault, including any surveyors and legal costs. The tip about the 15 years is useful, we have a few years yet but will make us tie it up legally now. I will let you guys know what happens, thanks again, this is a great forum. Steve Re: Neighbours drive on our land! 11Jul 04, 2008 10:28 am I just wanted to add to Piranhas reply - We probably will need to take a bit of the neighbours acreage anyway, as if our land goes below an acre it will reduce the value of our land. But the trouble is their acreage is mainly reserve anyway and so unusable, whereas our land is building envelope and so of a lot more value. So it wouldnt be a fair swap!
Thanks for your reply tho, Steve Re: Neighbours drive on our land! 12Jul 04, 2008 2:08 pm If your pool needs under pinning, hold onto your wallet. Make sure you get that sorted first or else.
Boss added a pool, his house was built near an old quarry that had been filled in. One side of the pool finished up being partly over the old quarry. 4 10m deep piers would have been needed...at a cost of $40k. He decided to fill in the hole that was dug and put the pool elsewhere. Re: Neighbours drive on our land! 13Jul 04, 2008 2:53 pm Hi Al,
Yeah, our plot slopes down in front of the house and currently all the quotes have put the pool quite close to the front of the house to avoid any underpinning. But now the house is going to have to be a bit further forward and so we are going to have to get new quotes for the new pool position and submit them to the neighbour to pay any difference. Steve Re: Neighbours drive on our land! 14Jul 04, 2008 3:23 pm hi,just my opinion.
I think you should try to get your land back as soon as possible. I know your neighbour is really nice but the longer you wait, the more complicated it will be. You may not want to fork out the money for surveyor or solicitor but you may have to pay more in the long run eg move your house design, relocate pool etc. It is better to sort this out before you spend more money on your new house. Maybe the neighbours are nice to you for a reason??? I don't believe they don't know about this, it is obvious from a sale contract! Re: Neighbours drive on our land! 15Jul 04, 2008 3:31 pm sammy Maybe the neighbours are nice to you for a reason??? I don't believe they don't know about this, it is obvious from a sale contract! Yeah its looking more and more suss as we go along, and the costings that you are having to put up with, let alone that you may have to change your house design because of it says I would be going after the land rather than any other solution. Let them take it up with the previous owners. Re: Neighbours drive on our land! 16Jul 08, 2008 2:38 pm Bear in mind that the create an access easement or move the property boundary you will need to lodge a development application with the Gold Coast City Council for a boundary realignment. To do this you will need to engage a town planner to lodge the application on your behalf. Private town planners can tell you about the requirements of doing such an application but will steer clear from the contractual component of doing such development, which you will need a solicitor for. Re: Neighbours drive on our land! 17Jul 16, 2008 7:16 pm just remember people usually think of their own interests first. i have been involved in a situation like this before. my advice is to consult a solicitor and be aware of all of your obligations and entitlements. I would be reclaiming your land as it is rightfully yours. You paid for it! Re: Neighbours drive on our land! 18Jul 16, 2008 10:25 pm Difficult situation. Happens a lot in rural areas. Boundaries move mysteriously in the night.
Some very good advice for you in previous posts. Can I just add a couple of things. I know an acre is not really rural but there's an old saying in the country -- good fences make good neighbours. A driveway is not a fence but the same principle applies. Do your best to resolve it amicably, there's always a possibility that somewhere down the track you'll need the neighbours/community. People remember. Having said that, be very, very careful in how you resolve it -- dot the 'i's and cross the 't's. Let a solicitor guide you but avoid any involvement in easements if you possibly can. Land swaps are also fraught with hidden traps and a solicitor would almost certainly advise you to avoid it unless you gain a real advantage. Which is fine, but is likely to rankle with your neighbours. The best solution would be for your neighbours to move the driveway if they can. Is it really that big a deal? if it's concrete or asphalt, it probably is (40 metres would have been expensive). If it's crushed metal or something it's not so costly to reinstate somewhere else. If that's not possible let them buy the land -- the valuation is whatever you want for it. Think of a number. But only do that if you're certain it won't inconvenience you now, and are pretty damn sure it won't in the future. If it's only an acre you should be able to think of all the possible future scenarios. Best of luck, and, as someone else said -- get it resolved now before adverse possession is even a twinkle in the eye of your neighbour's lawyers Re: Neighbours drive on our land! 19Jul 19, 2008 2:48 pm This post will be of no help whatsoever, but land things are funny sometimes...
My mum & dad live in a unit in Brighton in Melbourne and it's the front unit (1 of 2). This woman recently bought the back unit and apparently doesn't like the layout of it, because for her to enter her unit, she has to walk off the street and up a short lane way to get to her gate (my mum and dad have direct street access to their unit). This woman claims (and this is true) that she is permitted to enter her unit through my parents' garden. She says if she wanted to, the council would allow her to rip down part of my parents' back fence that borders her courtyard, to put in a gate for her. So she could enter through my parents' front gate, walk through the garden, and get to her place through this gate she'd put in. I HOPE SHE NEVER DOES THIS, cause man, it sounds terrible!!! She's a bit feral and very loud and has a lot of friends coming and going, and I mean, my parents are very careful to always have their gate locked and they have a cat too, who can't get out (they have had the garden cat-maxed as an enclosure for him so he's safe), so for this neighbour to be constantly coming and going, possibly leaving the gate open all the time, etc...imagine that!! How can this be allowed to happen!? She bought the unit the way it is! My parents bought their unit the way it is! Why must it be so strange and disgusting!? *possibly overreacting here* How the hell did I become a senior member!? I know nothing! Re: Neighbours drive on our land! 20Jul 19, 2008 3:55 pm Grace,
Any idea how long the units have been set up this way? If your parents (or them and the previous owners) have had the fences etc set up in the same way for 15 years, then you might want to look at adverse possession as a way of making the land theirs permanently. I guess God didn't use subbies... Yeah mine about 9 metres long and 8 wide with slope of 25% at one point but the end point of the outlet is past the side of garage and if he concretes allowing for… 4 4517 it depends on the natural ground level, if they excavated their boundary wall needed to be built as a retaining wall. If you filled, which sounds like the case then you… 1 7075 The only thing to add to these comments is that where possible it's always good to try and work with people than just say "no" because you can. Having someone… 4 17107 |