Browse Forums General Discussion 1 May 10, 2015 9:25 am I have attached below our floor plans- wondering whether it is possible to remove the steel post on the corner of the family and dining room to enable the entire space to be open to alfresco similar to the photo I've included. Draftsman says no on a double storey, but I've seen many double storey homes with it entirely open. Assuming they use steel beams. Maybe it is due to having an ensuite above. Hoping someone might be able to clarify whether it's possible please before I push the draftsman Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ M Y C U S T O M C O R A L B R O N T E 43 ...............Kitchen! 16 Nov 2016 https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=79581 Re: Removing steel post to open up alfresco 2May 10, 2015 9:34 am In theory its quite possible but could be very expensive. Probably need a structural engineer to do the calculations and specification Also for long spans like that the beam may be very deep which may mean a bulkhead across the ceiling. The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: Removing steel post to open up alfresco 3May 10, 2015 11:32 pm We decided against this set up as didn't like the less secure corner set up and couldnt find a door as good a quality as what we got with a double sided wood look aluminium bi folds which also were thermally broken. Re: Removing steel post to open up alfresco 4May 11, 2015 10:34 am This can be done but probably at very expensive cost. En-suite is probably one of the more "heavy" and "heavily used" room. From what you want to achieve, you are basically take away most support for the heaviest corner. As Bashworth said, you will need long spans and deep beams to support it and it is not going to look nice. For me, I wouldn't go on that path. If that's a bedroom above, I would fight for it, but not an en-suite or bathroom. Re: Removing steel post to open up alfresco 5May 11, 2015 4:16 pm As Bashworth and snowing above have already said and I am reminded of a saying a structural engineer told me once a long time ago " You can find a solution to any building problem - it just depends on how much money you want to throw at it." Stewie Re: Removing steel post to open up alfresco 6May 11, 2015 4:57 pm Really really helpful as always! Thanks heaps. Was prepared to throw $20-30k at it but this draftsman seems like he won't entertain the idea of pushing boundaries.... So might have to forget about it! Thanks again everyone M Y C U S T O M C O R A L B R O N T E 43 ...............Kitchen! 16 Nov 2016 https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=79581 Re: Removing steel post to open up alfresco 7May 11, 2015 5:09 pm Just looks like a cantilever on steroids situation. Can easily sub 3k be done one a single story so I really don't see why you couldn't on a double using steel cantilever supports beams. Draftsman can draw anything the engineer has to do the feesability can you push your draftsman to speak to engineer to see if there is a solution and then how much that would cost. If your willing to spend that much on a solution surely they could entertain the idea. Re: Removing steel post to open up alfresco 8May 12, 2015 10:20 am I have to agree . A 300mm UB beam would be in the realms of $150 per lineal metre so allowing for something like a 12m beam across the dining and laundry cantilevering out over the alfresco plus a steel post to support it in the corner of the dining room and you'd be up for maybe $2k all up. A beefed up footing under the post and the necessary welded cleats etc for another $1k then allow for labour /crane hire and I reckon most builders would be able to install that all up for around $5-6k. Mods to their usual floor and framing setup plus plumbing for the ensuite would be minimal. Of course how much your particular builder wants to whack on is a different matter. Stewie Re: Removing steel post to open up alfresco 9May 12, 2015 11:45 am I think it's a different post that OP wants to remove - the one at the junction of the two sliding doors, so the doors open clear, so requiring a clear span over the while family / dining / kitchen / alfresco space. That's over 9m in span, but for example a 310UB46 will struggle to get over 7m of span for any reasonable load width on an end span. Then the bath in the middle of it could also be quite a point load, and with the tiled floors above you don't want too much deflection. So I'm guessing you're getting up into around a 400mm UB to make that span. That will mean boxing the beam, or for a clear ceiling then dropping the whole ceiling down on joists to clear it. If you shortened up the sliding door on dining a bit and increased the nib wall on the kitchen bench, you might get posts in there that could get the span down to at least use a 310UB. Re: Removing steel post to open up alfresco 10May 12, 2015 1:39 pm Ahh, my mistake. I wrongly assumed the other wall and yes a 300UB would struggle at that span. You would likely have to alter the current layout with those mods as you say. Stewie Re: Removing steel post to open up alfresco 11May 13, 2015 10:42 am Thank you all so much- you guys are awesome. So knowledgable and so much easier than trying to get questions to a draftsman/engineer I can't talk to. I wanted to be 100%sure that it was an issue (and can see now it isn't going to be straightforward) as obviously not something we could ever do post handover. Really really appreciate your time! M Y C U S T O M C O R A L B R O N T E 43 ...............Kitchen! 16 Nov 2016 https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=79581 Re: Removing steel post to open up alfresco 12May 13, 2015 7:04 pm I have exactly this on my place. Some pics in there of the steelwork if you're interested. You would run a serious beam from the family "void space" to the dining. You'd need a 100*100 minimum in both corners to hold it up. From there - depends on the doors you choose. Sliders are not especially expensive, bi-folds much more so. I think with a slider you could do it for $6k, with a bi-fold $13-$15k depending on the heights. . Re: Removing steel post to open up alfresco 13May 13, 2015 9:20 pm You would need something to span at min 9000 to get from the nib wall beside the kit to the outside of the din stacker door. It will also need to support a beam to the back of the family stacker and the joists that hang off it. People much smarter than me do the calculations on the size, but im doing a house at the moment that has a 360UB spanning 7000,with less load than what you will need to support. It could be done but would mean having a bulkhead in your ceiling from the kit across to the corner of the doors. Re: Removing steel post to open up alfresco 16May 14, 2015 8:38 am An option would be a wall on the end of the kitchen island with a square hole through it, or just a post. It'd probably defeat the whoile purpose of opening up the space, but I thought it worth a mention in case anyone has any bright ideas of how to make that work visually. Re: Removing steel post to open up alfresco 17May 14, 2015 11:14 am Rather than have the post onejohn you could just rotate that beam I show above by 90º and have it run from the nib wall at the end of the main kitchen bench all the way across to the corner wall of the dining room. It would be a similar distance and achieve pretty much the same result. http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc455/stewiesno1/Picture%203_zpsb48mu7av.png Of course in either scenario you would have to run other beams over the external doors to support the joists above. Stewie Re: Removing steel post to open up alfresco 18May 14, 2015 1:08 pm Yes, that's the way around I was thinking. You could shorten it up a bit further by reducing the size of the dining sliding. But then a post on the end of the island would dramatically shorten the span in this case to around 6.5m. Re: Removing steel post to open up alfresco 19May 14, 2015 5:39 pm Stewie D I imported the above image into my CAD program, scaled it to suit and allowing for a bearing measurement each end of about 120mm and got 8150 overall length. A still not inconsiderable span. http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc455/stewiesno1/Picture%202_zpsl3eyiido.png Stewie Nice work Stewie, this is the option I think would work the best, no need for another LVL across the 2136 stacker to pick up the joists for the ensuite. Re: Removing steel post to open up alfresco 20May 14, 2015 7:05 pm I can't even put into words how awesome you all are. Thank you thank you thank you!!! To give you an idea of my frustration- this draftsman wasn't going to allow a window splashback to the kitchen as he didn't think you could put glass behind a cooktop!!! So this has been a battle not worth fighting to this point. I can't tell you how grateful I am. Those beams you have drawn on stewie- will I need bulkheads in every scenario? M Y C U S T O M C O R A L B R O N T E 43 ...............Kitchen! 16 Nov 2016 https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=79581 Hi I am wanting some opinions about the build of a steel shed I am going to get one about 4.5 x 2.5 m steel shed and the height will be about 2.3-2.4m high The one I am… 0 14434 That just protects from further rust, l want first to apply a rust converter or rust killer to kill the rust thats there, whats the best one for galvanized steel 2 7494 Cupcake.girl This really depends on your local council. Each one has different definitions and ways to calculate contributions. This is called a contribution… 1 3576 |