Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Mar 28, 2015 7:05 am Many will find some answers about what should be inspected in the VCAT decision below http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/vic/ ... 5/113.html among other things this inspector failed to inspect AG drainage The bottom line is that all building works should be inspected during mandatory inspections not just the element of building works In other words frame inspection is not just frame but everything else as well Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Building Inspectors, what should they inspect? 2Mar 28, 2015 9:15 am It makes for an interesting read. Thanks for sharing. It renforces the need to be alert as an owner and employ whatever measures are required to make sure everything is compliant when building. Re: Building Inspectors, what should they inspect? 3Mar 28, 2015 2:02 pm Thanks B/E... I was reading that myself and was going to share it but you beat me to it! Re: Building Inspectors, what should they inspect? 4Apr 02, 2015 2:42 pm Did not read the whole page, a bit eye glazing in some parts. So the Inspector was found by VCAT to not carry out work in a competent manner? What about the usual disclaimers of liability that these inspectors have to obsolve them of any failings. I guess they dont hold up in VCAT? Re: Building Inspectors, what should they inspect? 5Apr 02, 2015 4:21 pm BrandonZoe Did not read the whole page, a bit eye glazing in some parts. So the Inspector was found by VCAT to not carry out work in a competent manner? What about the usual disclaimers of liability that these inspectors have to obsolve them of any failings. I guess they dont hold up in VCAT? Many people are under misapprehension about inspection disclaimers however it always comes down what is reasonable, and the real test is what would you do if you were the inspector. In property inspection would you: 1 Interfere with personal garments in wardrobe just to see if there is termite damage at back of the robe? 2 Access unsafe areas 3 Make comments about what you cannot see 4 Move furniture about So the real test is what would a reasonable person do and that also applies to customer's expectations If I was to inspect a home for pre purchase and there was padlocked sub floor, sub floor would be disclaimed. It's customer's risk! Disclaimers and limitations are only there for very good reasons, and won't protect inspector if he did not do what he would reasonably have been expected to do. What most people fail to understand is that inspectors follow their insurers format which in turn is based on Australian Standards In the case of building inspectors, for too long they have not been doing their job and now they are caught out. This decision os long overdue and will cause tsunami of change an possibly a flood of claims. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Building Inspectors, what should they inspect? 6Apr 03, 2015 2:36 pm building-expert What most people fail to understand is that inspectors follow their insurers format which in turn is based on Australian Standards What does that mean? building-expert In the case of building inspectors, for too long they have not been doing their job and now they are caught out. This decision os long overdue and will cause tsunami of change an possibly a flood of claims. Now they are caught out? The opportunity to catch them out has always been there. I dont see how this decision changes anything either? One person got caught, copped a slap on the wrist,and is free to continue on his merry way. You seem to be over complicating it. Either the inspector is qualified , or not, to inspect the building work in question. Thats all there is to it. And this guy didnt do his job properly. Thats all there is to that. He has been reprimanded once before, and STILL his unprofessional conduct continues. Part of the reason can be found in clause 95, DROPKICK:"please dont suspend me, I have wife and kids, mortgage, food, phone, internet and medical expenses. And I may not be able to work again because of professional shame...." JUDGE:" alrightly then....." Aaww diddums. We see this same sort of nonsense in criminal cases as well. Is it any wonder this new-age nanny-state country has gone down the toilet with people on a revolving door in and out of courts because there is no real penalty given out, like old mate here. Considering the severity of the points in clause 12, esp. improperly supported upper floor posts, and wrong grades of timer for bearers and joists, this fool should have had the book thrown at him. This is nothing new either. Its been touched upon multiple times here before, there are plenty of inspectors (just like so many other tradies) who just dont do their jobs properly. Its a continuation of the same old problem, which is - owing to the appalling enforcement of standards, and lame penalties meted out, who can you trust to do work properly? The answer is unlikely to ever be "everyone". Re: Building Inspectors, what should they inspect? 7Apr 04, 2015 7:17 am In the first part I was trying to correct misapprehension that property inspector disclaimers are made up just so they can get out of doing their job properly. There have been many comments that property inspections are useless because there are so many disclaimers and exclusions. What it really means is that property inspections are not a guarantee against everything but a very important and essential risk reduction (when you are buying a property) backed up by insurance indemnity if inspector is negligent. In the second part I agree with you. There is no penalty for anything and when there is it does not fit the crime and has no deterrent value.(however that is a social problem in our society and beyond discussion here) However I believe that in Victoria at least a change is afoot that will (hopefully) somewhat correct the current situation. I think VBA means well but there is a big difference between meaning well and doing it well and only time will tell. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Building Inspectors, what should they inspect? 8Apr 04, 2015 7:48 am qebtel who can you trust to do work properly? The answer is unlikely to ever be "everyone". You can trust ENGINEERS to carry out structural inspections..LOL every other State but Victoria does so and it is no wonder you guys have so many problems. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Building Inspectors, what should they inspect? 9Apr 04, 2015 8:18 am You may be right but since some of us live in Victoria and are prospective owners of new housing we have to live with what we have here until something better comes along. Not much else we can do. Re: Building Inspectors, what should they inspect? 10Apr 07, 2015 8:39 am I would like to see building inspectors have more thorough training for limited electrical, plumbing and air conditioning knowledge. I have had several pre-purchase inspections where crucial safety or quality issues to do with these services have been missed. E.g. inspector's report said the property had a safety switch installed, it did not (this actually happened on two separate properties). They also failed to address things like air con condensate lines not properly diverted to stormwater drains or sewer, under-sized water pipes etc. These things are expensive to fix if you need to get a plumber or electrician in, as well as being potential safety hazards, or could cause problems witht the building, so they are very important to get picked up. For me personally, it's not a big deal because I am a building services engineer - pipes and wires are my forte so to speak. But for average Joe they have no idea whatsoever. Maybe it is even worthwhile for building inspectors to offer an "additional" specialist service whereby they engage a services engineer, plumber and/or sparky to inspect the services as well. I can see value in that. If anyone here has ever had to pay an electrician to re-wire a house, or a plumber to re-plumb a house, you know how much that costs. It would be nice to know what you are getting into when buying a house if these are or may become required. However, on the other side of the coin, the last house we purchased, the building & pest inspection report was able to used by us as "evidence" to show to the seller to achieve a $20,000 price reduction because of substantial concealed termite damage to an entire wall. So the $395 fee suddenly seems like pocket change... For what it's worth, if it meant a building inspection was twice the price but was twice as detailed, I would be willing to pay the extra. Building Services Engineer Renovating our 1960's modernist home in Brisbane https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82091 Re: Building Inspectors, what should they inspect? 11Apr 07, 2015 10:45 am 1960sModernistHome I would like to see building inspectors have more thorough training for limited electrical, plumbing and air conditioning knowledge. I have had several pre-purchase inspections where crucial safety or quality issues to do with these services have been missed. E.g. inspector's report said the property had a safety switch installed, it did not (this actually happened on two separate properties). They also failed to address things like air con condensate lines not properly diverted to stormwater drains or sewer, under-sized water pipes etc. These things are expensive to fix if you need to get a plumber or electrician in, as well as being potential safety hazards, or could cause problems witht the building, so they are very important to get picked up. For me personally, it's not a big deal because I am a building services engineer - pipes and wires are my forte so to speak. But for average Joe they have no idea whatsoever. Maybe it is even worthwhile for building inspectors to offer an "additional" specialist service whereby they engage a services engineer, plumber and/or sparky to inspect the services as well. I can see value in that. If anyone here has ever had to pay an electrician to re-wire a house, or a plumber to re-plumb a house, you know how much that costs. It would be nice to know what you are getting into when buying a house if these are or may become required. However, on the other side of the coin, the last house we purchased, the building & pest inspection report was able to used by us as "evidence" to show to the seller to achieve a $20,000 price reduction because of substantial concealed termite damage to an entire wall. So the $395 fee suddenly seems like pocket change... For what it's worth, if it meant a building inspection was twice the price but was twice as detailed, I would be willing to pay the extra. The first problem with property inspection is that it is not regulated. That means that Eskimo can come here and the same day set up as property inspector without any experience or qualifications. It leads to second problem that of people with limited qualifications pretending expertise. Just have look at web sites and see how many actually detail relevant experience. Some I have seen pretend mission statement as substitute for experience or somehow diploma of business is somehow relevant in property inspection. Then you have worn out carpenters and bricklayers (god bless them) setting up as property inspectors etc etc Then the problem with property inspections that it is so diverse that even exceptionally qualified and experienced person cannot cover it. Where will you find a competent property inspector that is also a licensed electrician, licensed plumber, accredited aircon installer, structural engineer, etc etc. Many times we had calls from purchasers asking whether we check plumbing and electrical and we have to tell them we are not licensed to do that. Sometimes we loose out to others that claim to be doing it but I think it is dangerous to be inspecting a licensed trade whilst not qualified. It means you have to stop somewhere and draw the line in the sand. Fortunately AS4349.1 a standard for residential pre purchase inspection does that with exclusions and limitations. It means that standard property inspection report is excellent risk reduction for the purchaser but not complete risk elimination. Its a good balance between price and value and as someone who has done thousands of them I can attest to that. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Building Inspectors, what should they inspect? 12Apr 07, 2015 11:05 am I think building and pool inspections are regulated and licenced in Queensland, under the QBCC/Pool Safety Council. It seems I live in some sort of well-regulated society...and people from down south bag Queenslanders for being behind the times... ha! Although, Victoria and WA has a much better regulated electrical industry. Ours is basically every man for themselves when it comes to domestic and small commercial jobs where there is no consulting engineer involved. To sell a house in Qld you must have a pool safety certificate, a safety switch protecting power circuits, and smoke alarms - the minimum safety essentials. At a minimum I would expect a building inspector to be competent enough to tell whether or not a property has a safety switch and smoke alarms installed. Personally, if I was a building inspector, I would be offering an extra "advice" service whereby (at an extra cost) I would advise the client on important things about the house, such as what type of hot water system they have, how they could improve energy efficiency of their potential new home, areas that may require preventative or reactive maintenance in the foreseeable future, things like that. A "value-added" service. Most building inspectors provide their opinions for free if the home owner is clever enough to walk around with the inspector and ask some questions, so why not charge for it and write it down? Oh, and in the interests of political correctness, I think the correct term for an Eskimo is now an Inuit Building Services Engineer Renovating our 1960's modernist home in Brisbane https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82091 Re: Building Inspectors, what should they inspect? 13Apr 07, 2015 6:12 pm 1960sModernistHome Personally, if I was a building inspector, I would be offering an extra "advice" service whereby (at an extra cost) I would advise the client on important things about the house, such as what type of hot water system they have, how they could improve energy efficiency of their potential new home, areas that may require preventative or reactive maintenance in the foreseeable future, things like that. A "value-added" service. Most building inspectors provide their opinions for free if the home owner is clever enough to walk around with the inspector and ask some questions, so why not charge for it and write it down? Oh, and in the interests of political correctness, I think the correct term for an Eskimo is now an Inuit Thanks for correcting me I have known for a long time I have no political talents. As for extra services in pre purchase reports we have tried that but people just don't want to pay. When we first procured thermal imaging we were trying to on sell as extra to reports but no one was interested in paying more. We then included it as part of our inspection and used it as marketing tool to say we exceed standards, that worked really well. In most cases the only time people will pay you more is if they are in deep trouble and need you to save their butt. Our reports are comprehensive and informative and our special inclusion is general maintenance guide. The other thing is that you can't be everywhere and do everything so what you don't do is just as important as what you do to your economic wellbeing. That's why I don't do statutory inspections (among many other things I don't do) because they don't pay well. Look at Apple, for everything they do they have said no to thousands of other promising options, works for them. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Building Inspectors, what should they inspect? 14Apr 07, 2015 7:38 pm Very interesting read. Inspections are very important when it comes to ensuring the safety of one's environment and home. Especially if you have pools and you have children who loves going in for a dip, then you should really consider doing it the proper way. Re: Building Inspectors, what should they inspect? 15Apr 08, 2015 2:02 pm 1960sModernistHome I think building and pool inspections are regulated and licenced in Queensland, under the QBCC/Pool Safety Council. It seems I live in some sort of well-regulated society...and people from down south bag Queenslanders for being behind the times... ha! Although, Victoria and WA has a much better regulated electrical industry. Ours is basically every man for themselves when it comes to domestic and small commercial jobs where there is no consulting engineer involved. You realise that pool inspections are very cursory, centred around whether appropriate fencing is up? The licencing is just a rubber stamp to make you a "licensed" inspector. You wouldnt use them if you wanted a pool inspected from an engineering perpective! No one state is ahead of the others completely in terms of regulation. They are all deficit in various ways. 1960sModernistHome To sell a house in Qld you must have a pool safety certificate, a safety switch protecting power circuits, and smoke alarms - the minimum safety essentials. At a minimum I would expect a building inspector to be competent enough to tell whether or not a property has a safety switch and smoke alarms installed. You dont need a smoke alarm, or a CCT breaker in a dwelling for sale. Just a statement as to the effect whether it has one or not. No one polices it either. That is a really good attitude Akin to you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I do enjoy watching that tik tok inspector from Victoria but he does go a little… 12 81883 If you are in Victoria you have a statutory right to your own building inspector regardless of builder's consent. No negotiations are required. However the builder will… 1 2925 Ask the council if there is a chance of getting build over easement exemption. Sometimes easements are unused and 24cm is not all that much. Good luck. And yes any builder… 2 13771 |