Browse Forums General Discussion Re: If builders and tradespeople are supposedly so incompete 21Dec 08, 2014 5:43 pm qebtel: Not sure if you are a WUM or being serious , some trades require more skill than others if it is as easy as you say then please explain to me why I had to serve my apprenticeship for 5 years before I qualified ,oh by the way I am a carpenter and Joiner with over 34 years experience. I would be very surprised if you had the knowledge and skill to use just a hand saw, roofing square, sliding bevel to cut and fix a traditional cut roof, could you put on plan the development of a roof and off that drawing work out all the lengths of rafters ,you could cut and make a flight of stairs on site with say a curved hand rail ?. I would like to see you plaster a wall with render a white set to a acceptable standard in in a reasonable time frame to actually earn money and not just play at it, It takes many years to become a fully competent tradesman not a few months as you claim ,like it is with most things in life no substitute for experience. Re: If builders and tradespeople are supposedly so incompete 22Dec 08, 2014 8:21 pm Ponzu this is the most ignorant view of the world i have ever had the displeasure of reading. We live in a world now, where everyone has to be described as a hero, a role model, and a purveyor of finesse . Why even Shazza down the Beauty shop is now referred to as a nail "technician". lol Everyhtign is now descrived as being "professional" when it fact the true menaing of the word has been so diluted people dont knwo what it means anymore. Shazza the Nail Technician is a professional. lol A finished job is a measure of the practitioners dedication and work ethic, not his intellectual ability. the rest of what you have said I dont disagree with, and if you stand back form your rage, you'll see it actually agrees with me. Ponzu all of those occupations require great skill and if these trades were not intelligent or require great skill we would not the technology and society we have today. Ponzu I can guarantee you there exist plumbers that don't understand flow calculations and dont apply that logic to a drainage installation... then how did they get their licence? we really are in trouble arent we? lol Ponzu Perfect examples are the genius savants who wouldn't be able to tie their own shoelaces and despit ehaving insane IQ's are debilitaded by their other shortcomings. Ponzu applying intelligence and being skillful in your trade isnt tied to IQ. Exactly hence you reinforce my original point. I dotn really want to labour the point although I did enjoy replying to it. Re: If builders and tradespeople are supposedly so incompete 23Dec 08, 2014 8:46 pm Tim65 qebtel: some trades require more skill than others if it is as easy as you say then please explain to me why I had to serve my apprenticeship for 5 years before I qualified ,oh by the way I am a carpenter and Joiner with over 34 years experience. The same reason I had to do a three year degree before I was allowed to work as a computer programmer. Because it is a "the system", and you know it, so you can spare me the " I did a course for years" BS, ok? If you took away all the bullsh*t, you can learn everything in a matter of months. An apprentice has dual role - to earn bucks for his employer and get the benefit of gaining skills as he goes along, at a pretty relaxed pace, be honest, and most of the time he is doing repetitive tasks he has well learned long ago. Do not try and tell me it is intensive new learning every day. Do a degree mate, and you'll see what brain overload and deadlines and schedules are like. Tim65 I would be very surprised if you had the knowledge and skill to use just a hand saw, roofing square, sliding bevel to cut and fix a traditional cut roof, could you put on plan the development of a roof and off that drawing work out all the lengths of rafters ,you could cut and make a flight of stairs on site with say a curved hand rail ?. Tim65 I would like to see you plaster a wall with render a white set to a acceptable standard in in a reasonable time frame to actually earn money and not just play at it, But by way of reply, ....I would like to see folk of average IQ (you know, most people), do the work as a programmer. You couldn't. It requires lateral and abstract methods of thinking that only gifted people can do easily. I can do it, but it does not always come easily to me, although I get by. Im not a genius, but I have worked with geniuses - they are quick minds and very impressive to work with. Tradesman are not geniuses - sorry guys, thems the breaks I know truth is a bitter pill. Tim65 It takes many years to become a fully competent tradesman not a few months as you claim ,like it is with most things in life no substitute for experience. Re: If builders and tradespeople are supposedly so incompete 24Dec 09, 2014 5:31 am So you're insulting peoples intelligence now because you have a 3 year degree... i have a number of those silly pieces of paper. Sad.it seems it is you who has missed the point entirely. Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: If builders and tradespeople are supposedly so incompete 25Dec 09, 2014 10:27 am Trades work is a very different thing to the abstract heavy job of a programmer, to be sure. It is hands on and something one learns by doing rather than ivory-tower thinking. But that doesn't mean only a little practice is sufficient experience. Sure, it may not take long to learn enough to do a nice job when everything is straightforward and just how you've practiced - but to know how to compensate for less-than-perfect situations and how to do the fiddly finishing off and when this happens then you do that to rescue it. Or how to judge the quality of the materials you are handling, etc. I certainly can tell the difference between someone who has had only a little bit of practice and someone who has had years of experience and applies that experience to doing their job well. No, it isn't IQ and abstract thinking required, it's practical thinking, common sense and pride in doing a neat job with one's own hands. Don't disparage it - it's just as valuable and worthwhile as abstract smarts. And just as with programming, experience does make a difference. (speaking as someone who has done some programming and who does crafts. Nope, doesn't take IQ to sew up a fantastic outfit, but experience makes a massive difference!) Land settled May '14. Building the PD Hoffman39: 5/11=site start, 13/11=slab pour, 26/11=frame complete, 10/12=roof on, 12/12=bricking started. Blog: http://jyndeira.net/blog/ Re: If builders and tradespeople are supposedly so incompete 26Dec 09, 2014 10:57 am Right. This thread is derailing and certain individuals need to consider what is acceptable behaviour here. This is not a forum for throwing out generalised insults no matter how you word them. Thread locked. Completed a knock down and rebuild in northern Melbourne. Handover completed 27/09/2013 and now moved in. Thanks again Simeon for being so elaborate. Appreciate it. Its gives us a very idea. Kind Regards 4 3604 Look at your bill from the electricity company. It should detail the charges. You will need to do some estimating and some calculations. Then charge the… 8 4126 Site works are just about to start on our build with Blueprint in Midvale. viewtopic.php?f=31&t=106894 2 3898 |