Browse Forums General Discussion Re: How to fix this? Somebody please help/share thoughts 21Sep 15, 2014 8:56 pm Thanks SaveH2O, Stewie and everyone who have dived in to help us on this issue. I will contact Sydney Water to get their official report as the Council guy may not have enough details about their analysis outcome. I will keep you guys updated. Once again, you guys have been superb! Cheers homeone! Re: How to fix this? Somebody please help/share thoughts 22Sep 16, 2014 1:38 am SaveH2O The land also appears to slope significantly to the RHS and unless I am mistaken, this means that the identified mains water that continually flows to the gutter is coming from a mains water pipe on your neighbour's property. This really complicates things! Note that as per advice on the other thread, mains water leaking from a pipe will only enter a stormwater pipe if the stormwater pipe is also serviced by an ag pipe. The existence of an ag pipe wasn't established on the other thread but one would be needed for the retaining wall and garage wall. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: How to fix this? Somebody please help/share thoughts 23Sep 16, 2014 11:45 am Hello SaveH2O, I just spoke to Sydney Water and they said they cannot send the report in writing instead just can share info over the phone and also cannot share water usage or any other details prior to our movement into this house (i.e Jan 2014). (1) They said the sample water test shows its a traveled tap water. (2) They asked me to provide current reading from water meter and based on last reading taken on 1July they said the usage is too high for house with 4 adults. In last 78days (1July-current) the usage is 181 kiloliters i.e 2.32kiloliters/day. whereas prev bill (3Apr - 1July total 89days) had usage of 127kiloliters i.e 1.42 kiloliters/day. So we have jumped up from 1.42 kiloliters/day to 2.32kiloliters/day (increase of 900L per day) within last 3 months Re: How to fix this? Somebody please help/share thoughts 24Sep 16, 2014 12:17 pm thehuntbegins (2) They asked me to provide current reading from water meter and based on last reading taken on 1July they said the usage is too high for house with 4 adults. In last 78days (1July-current) the usage is 181 kiloliters i.e 2.32kiloliters/day. whereas prev bill (3Apr - 1July total 89days) had usage of 127kiloliters i.e 1.42 kiloliters/day. So we have jumped up from 1.42 kiloliters/day to 2.32kiloliters/day (increase of 900L per day) within last 3 months Ok, so we now know... The gutter outlet has `leaked' for several years as per the previous owner's comments. The water currently leaking from the gutter outlet has been confirmed as mains water. Your water usage has risen significantly over the past few months. The questions that now need answering are: 1. Are these facts related? 2. Where is the leaking pipe? 3. How is the water getting into the stormwater pipe? I think that it has to be assumed that there is an ag pipe behind the garage wall and the retaining wall, very hard to imagine that there isn't. Again assuming (always dangerous) that there is an ag pipe, 3. has been answered. The answer to 2. will answer 1. On the plan you posted, it shows that there is a tap at the top LHS of the house as seen from the street. Is this correct? Is the house on stumps or a slab? Going by the pipe's plumbing as per the diagram, I am 'assuming' that you are on stumps. If so, are you able to get under the house and examine the ground in this area? Do you know whether it is a galvanised pipe? 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: How to fix this? Somebody please help/share thoughts 25Sep 16, 2014 5:47 pm Hi SaveH2O, >> Do you know whether it is a galvanised pipe? Which pipe (what sort of pipe) am I looking for? any specific side of house? Please lemme know. Thanks! Re: How to fix this? Somebody please help/share thoughts 26Sep 16, 2014 10:07 pm thehuntbegins Which pipe (what sort of pipe) am I looking for? any specific side of house? Please lemme know. Thanks! Galvanised pipe just describes a type of metal pipe. Most older homes had galvanised pipe as the main supply pipe but galvanised pipe is prone to internal corrosion due to the oxygen component in the dissolved air carried in water degrading the metal through an electro-chemical reaction that causes oxidation. Domestic water pipes are constantly flushed but dead ends such as would exist in a branch pipe supplying the tap as shown in the diagram would promote oxidation if the tap was infrequently used. The photo below shows a galvanised pipe fitting and its colour and texture is very similar to a galvanised pipe. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ If you do have galvanised water pipes, the area it is most likely to corrode is along the branch pipe shown in the diagram as N. The pipe runs between the tap (shown as T) fitted to the upper LHS of the house and the house back wall probably 2.5 metres away from the LHS top corner. If the house is on stumps, you should be able to notice an area of dampness somewhere along the pipe's indicated course under the house. What I have been concentrating on is determining the source of the mains water flowing to the gutter. This is only part of the problem, the status of the retaining wall and the garage wall also need to be best determined but while advice is good to pursue, you will need an onsite inspection by a structural engineer once you have received the advice but you will be much more knowledgeable. The same goes for locating the source of the leak, you will still need a plumber to repair it but if you are able to locate the source, the fix will be easy. I also have observational concerns about water run off from the lawn and concrete areas to the retaining wall and so fixing a leaking pipe is probably not the only requirement unfortunately. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: How to fix this? Somebody please help/share thoughts 27Sep 17, 2014 1:06 pm Hi SaveH2O, I am able to get under the house but I cannot go to the retaining wall side of the house as that (yellow) part is an extension (with slab base) to original house. Infact the area from grey line almost impossible to crawl under, very less space (height). Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: How to fix this? Somebody please help/share thoughts 28Sep 17, 2014 1:35 pm Hi Anna, Is there still a tap as shown on the diagram near the LHS back corner? 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: How to fix this? Somebody please help/share thoughts 29Sep 17, 2014 3:49 pm Hello SaveH2O,
(1) Is there still a tap as shown on the diagram near the LHS back corner? >> I will check and keep you updated. (2) Upon further checking in our frontyard area just next to the front fencing (and near our water mains / meter) we noticed a wet area of soil. We have been seeing it for last few months ( 4-5 months) appro but didnt pay much attention. But now that we are looking at possible leaks I dug up the soil and found the water keep coming in there from that pipe. Then I turned off the main water supply from meter side the water stopped coming from that pipe and as soon as I turn the mains on water started coming slowly. This pipe is found in the blue hexagonal area indicated in below pic : Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ upon digging it looks like this : Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ So my questions are : (1) Which pipe is that? Who is responsible to fix it and pay the fixing cost (me or sydney water or else) ? (2) So based on this current finding I believe it would be safe to say these are two different issues, am I right? : (a) high usage of water within property (as recorded by meter being 2.4-3kl per day) (b) original issue of water leak coming out of strom water outlet on kerb. Thanks for your outstanding continual help on this issue guys, looks like we are getting close now Anna Re: How to fix this? Somebody please help/share thoughts 30Sep 17, 2014 4:51 pm Hi Anna, You have done well, it's amazing that the Sydney Water plumber didn't notice it when doing his tests. If the leak is on your side of the meter, the cost is (usually) yours to have it repaired. I don't know why the meter is off your property though, strange even for Sydney. Any chance of a photo showing the meter (not close up)? I just can't imagine a meter off the property. Given that the leaking pipe is off the property, it wouldn't hurt to phone Sydney Water and ask the question. Can't wait to see the photo, can you show the property line with the meter thanks? A plumber will have to examine the pipe to see why it is leaking, an old corroded copper pipe is always a worry. This is also an area ripe for rip off, if you can ask someone for a recommendation, I would do it as a matter of urgency. It's also hard to quote on this type of thing, just make sure of their hourly rate and call out fee. Unfortunately, this leak is a separate issue. The only way that it can be your mains water exiting the gutter pipe is if you have a pipe still supplying the tap shown on the diagram or if the pipe is still there but capped and leaking. That is the next thing to eliminate. Re the neighbour's downpipe, if their gutter outlet is dry, all you need to do is squirt water onto their roof for a couple of minutes and then see if water comes out of their outlet. This won't indicate a partial blockage or a leak though and also remember that rain water isn't mains water, we still need to find the source of the mains water leak. Do your neighbours go out during the day? If no one is home, can you check their meter reading as early as possible and then recheck an hour or so before they are due home? EDIT: I want to query the position of the red dot, I expected it to be a lot closer to the left. Thanks. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: How to fix this? Somebody please help/share thoughts 31Oct 15, 2014 12:33 pm Hello Again SaveH2O These are indeed two separate issue. After fixing the water leak pipe from my above update "Sep 17, 2014 " high usage of water within property has dropped down to acceptable usage. So now we are back to original problem. There are two pendings things at my end to check (as discussed earlier in this thread): (1) Is there still a tap as shown on the diagram near the LHS back corner? (2) Can the same effect be achieved by pouring the coloured water in from the top of the downpipe ie through the gutter and down the downpipe? While I do that I have received below response from building inspector (to my question) who inspected this property at time of purchase. Blue part is mentioned in this report. Red part is his latest response on those points. >>> Subsidence observed to eastern side of garage in front yard, this often indicates that the stormwater dispersal system is blocked.The paths to eastern side of the garage exterior have significant subsidence and future repairs are considered necessary, this is a contributing factor to significant penetrating damp observed within the garage. It would be prudent to have stormwater tested by a plumber with drain camera or the like, then repairs made accordingly. To properly repair penetrating damp to walls retaining soils such as the eastern side of the garage, the ideal would be to excavate along the rear of those walls retaining soils where possible, installing quality waterproofing to the rear of wall to below the base of the foundation, install absorption drainage then backfill and replace concrete. Combination of excavation contractor, plumber, waterproofer and concretor trades would be needed - some may be able to provide all of these trades. >>> Garage walls are retaining soils to surrounds." Drip line needs to be added to to edge of concrete to eliminate water tracking to underside of concrete within the garage. Drip line can be added to edge of concrete or a cut can be made to underside of concrete, one option to consider would be to have a fascia tile installed along the edge of the garage concrete roof, where the bottom of the tile is lower than the concrete soffit, this would effectively create a drip line if done correctly. > >>> The paths to eastern side of the garage exterior have significant subsidence and future repairs are considered necessary, this is a contributing factor to penetrating damp observed within the garage. This area would need concrete broken up, soils excavated to below foundation to expose the rear of wall, then waterproofing applied to rear side of wall, appropriate drainage installed, backfilled and concrete paths or paving installed. > So my question is, how do we fix this problem? whom should be contact to get it fixed? > Appro what price are we looking for this type of job? The costing for this job can not be readily calculated, one would assume that costs could exceed $25k. Some excavation contractors may be interested in such a job - plumbers who are also licensed builders may also be willing to undertake these works. Re: How to fix this? Somebody please help/share thoughts 32Oct 18, 2014 7:58 pm Not sure if you were after a response to the above. It would be difficult and expensive to excavate behind the walls to replace the stormwater pipe and you obviously first need to establish whether the pipe is in fact damaged. As advised by the inspector, you should get a plumber with a camera to inspect the pipe. The plan you last posted shows the leaking outlet (indicated by a red mark) a good distance away to the RHS and downslope from the retaining wall although the first plan showed it being a lot closer but still to the RHS of the wall. The pipe's flow path MUST be established. How close to the boundary is the neighbour's nearest kerb outlet and do you have more than one kerb outlet? One would expect that the wall was installed with drainage but this of course is unknown. The fact that the stormwater pipe is always trickling indicates that an ag pipe could feed into it and this will be determined by the camera inspection. If the pipe is ok, then your attention must be on restoring the path but before doing this and to determine the walls structural integrity and whether excavation is needed, you most probably will need to seek out a structural engineer. You also need to follow the inspector's recommendation for having a 'drip' line (a rather poor choice of words but it may be a Sydney idiosyncrasy) when you restore the path. Given your annual average rainfall and the condition of the path, my gut feeling is that the path and slope is the cause of the problem. I will be interested to know the outcome. 3in1 Supadiverta. 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