Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Aug 27, 2014 4:11 pm Okay, I do know the reason why timber laminate flooring needs expansion joints - because timber laminates expands due to pressure from heavy furnitures or difference in moisture level between the rooms. My question is - why is it that DISPLAY HOMES (such as Plantation and Metricon) that have timber laminate flooring never seem to have expansion joints? I am currently building Plantation Home's Sahara and I am being told by my timber laminate trades people it will need expansion joints every 8 meters (while online some documentation says 15 meters is okay). My problem is I am laying timber laminate flooring from the main entrance through the corridor right to the end of living room, which spans 19 meters! The Plantation Home's own Sahara display home does not have expansion joints anywhere which baffle me. And they get probably more than 10,000 visitors a month so that's a lot of reason for their floor without the expansion joints to pop up (but I have never ever seen it)! I want to avoid the expansion joints completely as it is ugly and could be a tripping hazard (I know there are flatter profile version but still....) so is there a way around this? Is there a product such as "invisible" expansion joints? "Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is almost always somebody screwed up." Re: Why does timber laminate flooring needs expansion joint? 2Aug 27, 2014 4:37 pm I think the distances are set by the manufacturer so one could say 8 another 15 etc. I'd check what the installation instructions for your particular boards are and get them to do that. The builder will only install them as per these instructions as they don't want to have to come back to repair anything - and then if they do and have fitted them as per manufacturers instructions they could claim back from the supplier. I imagine though if you told them that you are prepared to forgo any warranty, they might be prepared leave out the expansion joints but personally I wouldn't. The reason display homes don't have them is because they are ugly and their happy to repair them when needed - also they pretty much have the air con going 24/7 throughout the entire house so the chances of having an issue are minimised. http://camdenbuild.blogspot.com.au/ by invite only please pm me Re: Why does timber laminate flooring needs expansion joint? 3Aug 28, 2014 2:19 pm Thanks Robbie, those are excellent points! I am now thinking of just laying the floor myself. Has anyone done it? Is it hard? I am doing the WHOLE house with timber laminate - about 33 Squares (346 m²) how long do you guys think it would take for a first timer to do this? Are there any difficulties you guys encounter? How do you avoid expansion joints? "Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is almost always somebody screwed up." Re: Why does timber laminate flooring needs expansion joint? 4Aug 28, 2014 2:58 pm I've laid at least 4 but only in individual rooms not the whole house. If you're not used to squatting all day you are going to be sore. I think its a very doable DIY job but a bit more fiddly than you first think. This is just my take on it - others might have more experience. 1. You will need a mallet, (preferably) a compound mitre saw or a handsaw, the boards, scotia and spacers and some solid rubber blocks or offcuts so you don't damage any boards you need to knock in. 2. You will need to cut away the bottom of door architraves so the boards can sit under them, scotia around these areas doesn't really work. You may also need to trim the doors. If you've had a mishap doing this, now is the time to fill and paint them too. 3. Sweep or vacuum the floor really well, you don't want anything under the boards that might make them feel uneven or move. 4. Put down the underlay carefully and don't overlap them. I tape them to each other so they don't move and there is no gap in them. 5. Spend some time roughly laying out the boards, there can be niches in walls, door openings etc and cutting small pieces to sit in them doesn't look good. Also consider that in some rooms you think the boards should run one way and a different way in another so plan the direction from the start. If the rooms are leading into each other they should really run all the same direction so give that some thought before just starting. 6. Put your spacers along one wall and put a row of boards up against it (again consider which wall you start on I prefer to end on a straight wall as the last boards can sometimes be a little tougher to get in) 6. Start the next row with a half length so all the joints don't line up (if that makes sense). 7. As you go make sure all the boards are properly clicked into each other, some boards really need a firm whack to get in or to join the short ends together and if any don't seem to sit flat pull it up immediately and get out whatever bit of dirt has crept under them. Its actually a good idea not to cut in the same room as you are working on as the saw dust will find its way under there. 8. Make sure there is a gap all around the walls (I left around 10-15mm) and then cut your scotia to fit. Fix this to your walls or skirting, not the floor. Thats about all I can remember off the top of my head. Edit - In terms of timing 50sqm took me about 2 full days to do by myself. http://camdenbuild.blogspot.com.au/ by invite only please pm me Re: Why does timber laminate flooring needs expansion joint? 5Aug 28, 2014 11:27 pm Thanks Robbie for such comprehensive insight! Wow, 2 full days for just 50m²? Man, I am guessing for someone who aren't used to squat and do hard labor it will probably take me more than 2 weeks alone! My house is 346m² but minus the garage, the Alfresco, and the wet areas it is roughly 210m² which means even if I am as somehow as proficient as you, it will take 8 days! Another thing, I have figure out THE REAL SECRET how those display homes are able to do timber laminate floors without expansion joints and withstand the wear and tear of over 10,000 visitors a month without it popping up!..... The real secret is.................................................. THEY ARE NOT USING TIMBER LAMINATE FLOORING! I am pretty certain they are all using Vinyl Plank flooring - which is why it doesn't need the expansion joints (vinyl doesn't react to water or moisture - it is 100% waterproof, and doesn't react to temperature variance either). I was fooled by it for a long time until yesterday when I walked into this store and asked them about my problem with the timber laminate and after almost an hour of discussion with the clerk, he suddenly suggested vinyl plank and showed me what I thought was "timber laminate" that I walked on before (and it spans over 30 meters without a single expansion joints in their large warehouse) is actually vinyl plank! So now, I am thinking to go for vinyl plank (sorry Robbie... made you type all that up for nothing...). I watched a few Youtube videos, and it seems I don't even need to buy any expensive equipments such as jigsaws (for door corners - $45 from Bunnings) or compound mitre saws (these cost $110+ at the cheapest from Bunnings) or nailgun ($150+ from Bunnings) - all I need is a craft knife! So my question is now becoming : Does anyone have any experience with vinyl plank? Actually, I will start a new thread asking this question here : posting.php?mode=post&f=1 "Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is almost always somebody screwed up." Re: Why does timber laminate flooring needs expansion joint? 6Oct 07, 2014 8:37 pm Hi there, we are also building with Plantation Homes in Brisbane. I actually asked my sales person what flooring they used in their display homes (Rochedale display homes) and was told that all the houses actually used real timber flooring. I can't say that's the same for all their displays, but it is true for Rochedale apparently. The reason I asked was because I was considering laminate, and asked if it would look like their displays... to which he replied no, and that they only used real timber. My partner and I have now decided to go vinyl plank for our build. ^_^ Re: Why does timber laminate flooring needs expansion joint? 7Nov 04, 2014 9:10 am I'm having the same dilemma as the original Dr House one. I'm keen on having a particular laminate, the length of the house is 19 metres and I hate the look of expansion joints! Grrrrrrr Engineering timber is certainly a less fuss option, times cheaper to supply and install and better withstands humidity. 1 15904 To my understanding early saw cuts are to control shrinkage cracks, so doing them now would be pointless. Control joints may reduce ugly cracking during periods of soil… 3 9857 Hi all I need a guidance on how far I need to space expansion joints in the concrete driveway and its type (keyway/foam.) Contraction joints are at 3m max for a 125 slab. Thanks 0 10939 |