Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Aug 21, 2014 7:57 pm Hi All, We got two tenders from two project home builders. The first builder delivers building of in order of 50 homes a month. While the other project builder builds 10-12 houses. The first builder when asked for the survey & the borehole report immediately emailed us a copy. Then we got the tender etc. The second builder, did not order a report (as we had emailed them a copy of the report from the first builder. They should have ordered it start of July when we arranged access by talking to our tenants. They presented the tender start of August on the basis of the first builder. We weren't really happy with how unprofessional they were as they kept rubbishing the first builder rather than saying how well they can deliver. Further, we had to keep pushing them for weeks to order a bore-hole report as we had paid for it. Finally they got the bore-hole report, 3 weeks after the tender presentation (not to forget, how pushy they were to make us sign the moment they presented the tender; Plus we had to go to their office 2 days in a row as their estimators had no clue what they put in the tender!). Now that they have the bore-hole report, they say it's their property and they will not email it to us, but that they want to go through with it in person. We don't want to waste our time but we do want a copy of the report as we paid for it. I feel they are just taking a p!ss out of us by not mailing us and want to meet us to push us again. Shouldn't they just give it to us? They haven't presented any "terms and conditions" and neither did we sign anything saying they own it. By the way they did hand over the survey diagram to us during the tender, so not sure how different a bore-hole report is. It's like giving us the bone, to keep the conversation going. But it's well past our patience to be dealing with people who are so up themselves that they need to go to lengths of rubbishing the first builder! Thoughts please? Thanks! Re: Builder refusing to give us reports we paid for 2Aug 21, 2014 10:10 pm Run run run,imagine what could happen after you had signed,I would turn up,get my report then walk out,no price given by this company would convince me, for it will end up as false economy. Re: Builder refusing to give us reports we paid for 3Aug 21, 2014 10:27 pm Joker, they wouldn't even hand the report to us. They said we can come and see it. Which I find bizzare as we've paid for it, yet they claim it's their intellectual property! Re: Builder refusing to give us reports we paid for 4Aug 21, 2014 10:34 pm Can you go in and pretend you're keen in order to get a copy of the report? Might be the only way if they won't email it to you. Don't sign anything, perhaps make up some excuse why you need to get back to them. Re: Builder refusing to give us reports we paid for 5Aug 21, 2014 10:38 pm Can't get time off work to be honest. The guy is open to coming to the city to see us. But I don't even want to waste a single minute and get our money's worth by getting that report . I might call fair trading tomorrow to ask what the deal is with these.. Re: Builder refusing to give us reports we paid for 9Aug 21, 2014 10:53 pm cat_dunc Not us, but good friends. They weren't given the survey so had to pay for another one from the next company they went to. Ah k. The interesting thing is they handed us the survery diagram during tender. I think this is just a ploy to get us in and pressure us. But we don't want to really do our head in! And it's their estimator who will review it.............jack of all trades?! Re: Builder refusing to give us reports we paid for 10Aug 22, 2014 9:26 am what2do Joker, they wouldn't even hand the report to us. They said we can come and see it. Which I find bizzare as we've paid for it, yet they claim it's their intellectual property! That's hilarious. A report for which they've engaged a third party to prepare at your request and expense is not their intellectual property. Completed a knock down and rebuild in northern Melbourne. Handover completed 27/09/2013 and now moved in. Re: Builder refusing to give us reports we paid for 11Aug 22, 2014 12:52 pm Bluesuede what2do Joker, they wouldn't even hand the report to us. They said we can come and see it. Which I find bizzare as we've paid for it, yet they claim it's their intellectual property! That's hilarious. A report for which they've engaged a third party to prepare at your request and expense is not their intellectual property. Indeed. Spoke to fair trading. At first they said they can't do anything. Then suggested I lodge a general complaint from their website..So will be doing that & informing these stooges of the same Re: Builder refusing to give us reports we paid for 12Aug 22, 2014 1:18 pm what2do, You need to understand copyright law and not act on unprofessional advice. The second builders DO own the intellectual property, the fact that you have paid for it does not matter unless you have documents that show a prior ownership agreement existed to the production of the document in question. Regardless of this, the second builder's behaviour is poor and you should simply inform them by Email (with all appropriate CCs) that you are no longer proceeding with your previous intention to build with them due to their poor attitude to customer relations or words to that effect. A customer walking is what best drives home the point. It sounds like you want to walk anyway and you should just put the experience behind you. You shouldn't have sent the second builder the first builder's report and this may have influenced the second builder's attitude to yourself. Take it as another lesson. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Builder refusing to give us reports we paid for 13Aug 22, 2014 1:32 pm Also it could be risky using reports prepared by another builder for a different builder. Ie, with the survey I mentioned, if they used the old builder's survey and there was something wrong when it came to site, the owner would be entirely responsible, rather than the new builder who would be responsible for their own survey. That's how I see it anyway? Re: Builder refusing to give us reports we paid for 14Aug 22, 2014 2:16 pm SaveH2O what2do, You need to understand copyright law and not act on unprofessional advice. The second builders DO own the intellectual property, the fact that you have paid for it does not matter unless you have documents that show a prior ownership agreement existed to the production of the document in question. Copyright belongs to the surveyors that produced the report and NOT to the builder. The report is NOT the IP of the builder. Completed a knock down and rebuild in northern Melbourne. Handover completed 27/09/2013 and now moved in. Re: Builder refusing to give us reports we paid for 15Aug 22, 2014 2:51 pm It depends as to whether there is an ownership agreement between the builder and whoever produced the report. A builder as a matter of course normally ensures that they have copyright ownership but I agree that this is unknown in this instance with the information given apart from the builder's claim to ownership. Regardless of the unknown contractural arrangement in this instance, the OP has sought advice about their own claim to the intellectual property given that they have paid for the report. As per previous advice, unless there was a prior documented agreement that ownership would pass to the OP, then the OP has no intellectual property rights in this instance. The OP needs to make sure of any information that they are planning to act on if they intend using that 'information' when writing to the builder. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Builder refusing to give us reports we paid for 16Aug 22, 2014 2:58 pm The OP isn't claiming IP rights, only a copy of the report they paid for. They are entitled to a copy of it. In my years of working in the industry I can't say I've ever heard of a builder taking steps to obtain copyright ownership of a surveyors report. I'd be surprised to hear of a surveyor agreeing to it either. The only time they'd have copyright ownership is under a larger organisation with a surveyor in their direct employ. Which is unusual. Completed a knock down and rebuild in northern Melbourne. Handover completed 27/09/2013 and now moved in. Re: Builder refusing to give us reports we paid for 17Aug 22, 2014 3:16 pm If the builder owns the intellectual property, they can deal with the document however they like, this includes choosing not to Email it. The OP won't know whether the builder is being truthful until he/she sees the document's copyright. I don't agree with the builder's attitude but it is up to the OP to choose the direction he/she now takes. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Builder refusing to give us reports we paid for 18Aug 22, 2014 3:25 pm If the builder has sought and obtained copyright ownership over a consultants work I'll eat my hat and crap out rainbows. Burden of proof is on the builder. Personally, I'd threaten legal action for failure to provide services for which they'd been engaged and paid for. Completed a knock down and rebuild in northern Melbourne. Handover completed 27/09/2013 and now moved in. Re: Builder refusing to give us reports we paid for 19Aug 22, 2014 3:36 pm The builder has not withheld services as they have stated they want to go through the report with the OP in person. If the builder has not been truthful about who actually owns copyright, then another reason for the OP to walk. The relationship is already fractured. EDIT: SaveH2O Regardless of the unknown contractual arrangement in this instance, the OP has sought advice about their own claim to the intellectual property given that they have paid for the report. Bluesuede The OP isn't claiming IP rights, but in the opening post..... what2do Shouldn't they just give it to us? They haven't presented any "terms and conditions" and neither did we sign anything saying they own it. The opening post clearly indicates that what2do is querying the ownership of the document's intellectual property as the basis of why it should be sent to him/her. Any possible contractual arrangement between the other two parties matters little when what2do has no claim to copyright. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Builder refusing to give us reports we paid for 20Aug 23, 2014 6:21 pm SaveH2O what2do, Regardless of this, the second builder's behaviour is poor and you should simply inform them by Email (with all appropriate CCs) that you are no longer proceeding with your previous intention to build with them due to their poor attitude to customer relations or words to that effect. A customer walking is what best drives home the point. It sounds like you want to walk anyway and you should just put the experience behind you. Thanks. Will email and cc their managing director. A bit of a waste of money for us really. I PM'd someone whose building with them and they received the bore-hole with the contract & not the tender. These are the builders who would have gotten on site and said more needs to be done (if we hadnt pushed them to get their own report done)!! While during the tender meeting they were claiming the other builder would do that when they get to site... So much for having claimed they will smash the other builder when in fact their quote was around $60k higher due to the superior quality fittings provided by the other builder SaveH2O You shouldn't have sent the second builder the first builder's report and this may have influenced the second builder's attitude to yourself. Take it as another lesson. Why do you reckon so? It is true that a builder can ignore your independent inspection report as it is not part of the contractual arrangement but that is stupid because he cannot avoid fixing… 9 46873 4 6834 |