Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Jun 19, 2014 1:45 pm My question relates to the liability/responsibility of certifiers /engineers that do inspections on a new build and for the slab that is laid. Do they hold any responsibility. Is there any responsibility for the engineers who check the board placement and steel and Council certifiers who do a slab and pier inspection and sign off as 'all ok' to comment on the height or are they there just to check measurements/sizes? Ultimately it is the builders responsibility to ensure it is built to approved plan RL's. Sect 18B of the Home Builders Warranty Act says as such...but do the other professionals have any responsibility to have spoken up sooner? and to whom? 100-200mm higher may be missed as hard to tell, I understand but being ( proven by survey) substantially higher than approved plans we assuming they had to have noticed it. It was very obvious. There were also no drop edge beams installed within 2m of the boundary - contrary to DA Approval. Your thoughts or experiences are appreciated. Re: Who is responsible? Ultimately the builder? 2Jun 19, 2014 2:03 pm I can't comment on a lot of your thread but in relation to the drop edge beam (DEB) within 2m of the boudary, we nearly ran into this issue with a builder we were considering. Apparently if you go the CDC route you can avoid the requirement of a DEB if you do a retaining wall along the boundary of the affected side. For us though the retaining wall was going to cost considerably more than the cost of the DEB and we were glad we picked up on it when we did, they don't make it really clear - on any of your drawings does it say something like "retaining where required by owner". http://camdenbuild.blogspot.com.au/ by invite only please pm me Re: Who is responsible? Ultimately the builder? 3Jun 19, 2014 2:28 pm Same issue exactly! Sadly we were not as cluey as you and had no clue until after the event when we were told at the pier inspection that we now needed and engineered, piered, DA approved wall at a huge cost like you This only occurred as the height was raised contrary to approved council plans/levels. If built to plan there was no wall required. Ours was council not CDC due to bushfire. Re: Who is responsible? Ultimately the builder? 5Jun 24, 2014 1:37 pm Did the engineer come and inspect the slab? Just because they designed it doesn't mean they inspected it after it was poured. This is usually the job of the building surveyor. Everyone carries some liability, but in regards to checking constructions are done according to plans, that is generally the responsibility of the building surveyor. Re: Who is responsible? Ultimately the builder? 6Jun 24, 2014 1:56 pm In relation to your opening post, the engineers inspect the steel to make sure it is the right size, in the right place, lapped correctly and that cover ( distance from the reo to the face of the concrete ) is right. They also make sure the footings, beams and slabs are the right dimensions etc - all of this to what is specified on the working engineering drawings. Once their inspection is over it is up to the builder to ensure that the concrete ( with the right strength of course ) is poured and placed correctly then allowed to cure for the specified time. To sign off on it they usually want to see the concrete truck receipts showing date, address , amount and strength ( mpa ). If they have designed the slab, beam etc correctly it is up to the builder to ensure that the drawings have been followed with the placement and finishing of the concrete. Basically the certifier ( NSW ) or BS ( Vic ) is just there to tick the boxes on his forms for completion. The engineers when they do their pre-pour inspection should have raised any issues if the slab doesn't follow their drawings. The big problem is the conflict of interest when you have engineers and BS's who do a lot of work for some of these project home builders. In some cases they are their sole clients and naturally won't hesitate to take the builders side. There is also no excuse for being 100-200mm out of anything. 20mm I'd accept but no more. With my ancient dumpy level I can get + or- 5mm over 100 metres from a survey peg or benchmark on a kerb. It sure ain't hard to get it right! Stewie Re: Who is responsible? Ultimately the builder? 7Jun 24, 2014 3:37 pm Thank you for your replies. Yes the engineer says they inspected the steel. Do they bring a dumpy level or laser levels to check the height of the slab? I suspect not. I agree more than 20mm is too much. Technically, although there were a few other issues but the height and no DEB's that were of main concern. I guess if they were drawn on the slab engineering plans then the engineer has not done his job right when he ticked off as ok with them missing? Same with Council. It seems everyone does just tick their own boxes to ensure they get paid. Whatever the reason, we just cannot believe it passed through so many 'professional' hands and was allowed to go ahead when it was so obviously wrong. The slab has now been demolished and illegal uncertified fill removed under Council order, at our expense So, we are back to square one with a vacant block but now with only a huge debt to show for it. Besides the builder who is liable as ultimately as it was his contract and responsibility to ensure the job was built according to plans no matter what, surely the engineer and Council certifier are liable for signing off when things we missing and not right. Hindsight is a wonderful thing - had we have got our own building inspector pre-slab this would have been picked up. You don't know what you don't know, and you have blind faith people will so what they are paid to do that is the problem. Re: Who is responsible? Ultimately the builder? 8Jun 24, 2014 4:17 pm Hi Nectar You are right, overall builder is responsible for the job and everything that happens on site. Building inspectors carry statutory mandatory inspections and are covered by professional indemnity insurance. I am not sure that engineer would have done the inspection as often they are engaged for design only (in VIC) Ultimately in you action against the builder you may need to join the building inspector and (QCAT, you are in QLD right?) will make their own appropriate findings on liability. In any case building consultant that you have engaged since your slab problem should be guiding you, why isn't he? Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Who is responsible? Ultimately the builder? 9Jun 24, 2014 5:13 pm NSW We haven't asked him about these avenues. We will get tribunal over first and not muddy the waters - as you say the builder is responsible and they will deal with him I am sure.... then if I am still well enough the other fish will fry too...we don't want this to happen to anyone else ever again! The builder has an invoice from the engineers saying they did an inspection. Hi Mofflepop, I would recommend finding a building designer to prepare plans, they should design to your specified budget. The benefit is you can tender the project out… 9 20410 Hi, did you get any money from insurance? if you did, does it match what you've already paid the builders? 3 9565 |