Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Jun 03, 2014 7:32 pm Hi all, Our kitchen is connected to the alfresco through a 3 panel sliding door. We are planning to have a recessed sill for the sliding door (so that no one trips over them). We also want the kitchen floor to be level with the alfresco floor. The alfresco would be tiled. What issues would we potentially face if they are both on the same level? We notice in nearly all display homes, they usually have a drop into the alfresco. Some issues that I can think we might come across: 1) When cleaning the alfresco floors with a garden hose, water/dirt might get into the sliding door sills? Wonder if the sills would get clogged up and if it is easy to clear them. It shouldn't get into the house since closing the sliding door would prevent that? 2) Does that mean that I would have a step down between the alfresco and the garden? Is there a drawback if so? Would it look weird? Please do post any other issues that you can think of. Cheers! Re: Alfresco same level as inside of house 2Jun 03, 2014 7:41 pm you cant have the alfresco and house slab on the same level, the alfresco has to finish below the bottom of the door sill so water can escape. closing the door wont stop it overflowing to inside. unless its needed for wheel chair access your going to have a 40mm step down. id say 99.9% of houses have that step. Re: Alfresco same level as inside of house 3Jun 03, 2014 9:56 pm There is a way to do this legally, but it is expensive and difficult to get right especially with solid surfaces externally (concrete etc). It is not an ideal arrangement for all the reasons you state but with modern indoor/outdoor living some people simply must have level both sides. Claiming it's for disabled access is one way around it but whichever way it is built ensure it gets independent certification by a building surveyor and is detailed on your building permit because you will be building against the NCC (or BCA) requirements. I don't think a lot of people understand this or bother getting it certified which will create issues down the track Re: Alfresco same level as inside of house 5Jun 04, 2014 10:35 am Depending on your termite treatment & termite barriers and whether the termite barrier extends under your alfresco area, a step down may be required by the building code to allow visual evidence of termites entering the house. You also cannot have a gully trap in the alfresco area if it is the same level as the house. Re: Alfresco same level as inside of house 6Jun 04, 2014 11:51 am mgilla you cant have the alfresco and house slab on the same level, the alfresco has to finish below the bottom of the door sill so water can escape. closing the door wont stop it overflowing to inside. unless its needed for wheel chair access your going to have a 40mm step down. id say 99.9% of houses have that step. The slabs won't be the same level. It's after you put the tiles on that they are level. I have always thought the drainage of water is somehow taken care of when you have a recessed sill. Guess I am wrong? Re: Alfresco same level as inside of house 7Jun 04, 2014 1:44 pm We went to a house open for inspection about a year ago and the owners had done this. I met the builder a few months later and asked him about it. The floor slab of the house and the alfresco was poured all in one so no issues with termite proofing. They had allowed for a step down in the concrete for a small grated drain butting up against the sliding stacker doors for drainage. The alfresco area was tiled and the house was a wooden floor over the concrete slab. The sill for the stacker doors would probably have been allowed for in the concrete pour as well . The timber floor, the aluminium sill for the stackers and the tiled alfresco were all the same level. It looked very schmick. Apparently the owners had an aged mother who used to come and stay with them regularly so they didn't want any trip hazards. The alfresco and rear patio had a roof that extended over the entire back of the house so the doors were a minimum of probably three metres on the sides from any weather and 6 metres from the back of the roof so in all likelihood no problems with water ingress. They would still have to be careful hosing down the alfresco area though. I think this would be the only way you could do this and comply with the regs. Stewie Re: Alfresco same level as inside of house 8Jun 05, 2014 12:28 pm Stewie D We went to a house open for inspection about a year ago and the owners had done this. I met the builder a few months later and asked him about it. The floor slab of the house and the alfresco was poured all in one so no issues with termite proofing. They had allowed for a step down in the concrete for a small grated drain butting up against the sliding stacker doors for drainage. The alfresco area was tiled and the house was a wooden floor over the concrete slab. The sill for the stacker doors would probably have been allowed for in the concrete pour as well . The timber floor, the aluminium sill for the stackers and the tiled alfresco were all the same level. It looked very schmick. Apparently the owners had an aged mother who used to come and stay with them regularly so they didn't want any trip hazards. The alfresco and rear patio had a roof that extended over the entire back of the house so the doors were a minimum of probably three metres on the sides from any weather and 6 metres from the back of the roof so in all likelihood no problems with water ingress. They would still have to be careful hosing down the alfresco area though. I think this would be the only way you could do this and comply with the regs. Stewie Thanks for your useful insight. We will have a chat with the builder about it. Re: Alfresco same level as inside of house 9Jun 05, 2014 2:21 pm Take note: I think that sliding stacker doors would be the only ones you could do this with certainly not bi-folds. Not without doing more research into sill profiles etc anyway. I might even go this way with our upcoming build. I've always hated the step up, over and down sills of sliders , bifolds etc Some of my clients houses have this with 80-100 and even 150mm step downs onto outside decks and alfrescos. Great for waterproofing but little else going for them. Stewie Re: Alfresco same level as inside of house 10Jun 05, 2014 2:45 pm Stewie D Take note: I think that sliding stacker doors would be the only ones you could do this with certainly not bi-folds. Not without doing more research into sill profiles etc anyway. I might even go this way with our upcoming build. I've always hated the step up, over and down sills of sliders , bifolds etc Some of my clients houses have this with 80-100 and even 150mm step downs onto outside decks and alfrescos. Great for waterproofing but little else going for them. Stewie Wow...good thing you mentioned it. Currently, the floor plan is showing 3 panels sliding door with 2 fixed panels. If that's the case, we might have to consider upgrading to a 3 door stacker then. We even thought about having bi-folds instead but if it does not work then we wouldn't bother. Cheers!! Re: Alfresco same level as inside of house 11Jun 05, 2014 4:45 pm mwccl, the guys to talk to are the window manufacturers not me. They are the ones who can show you the profile of the sill they use and whether stacker vs sliding doors vs bi-folds are the way to go. Of course it also depends on how much the builder is going to charge you. You might ask this question in the Windows and Door section too. viewforum.php?f=23 A few knowledgeable manufacturers like Ed from EcoClassic may chime in. I'll send him a PM instead. Edit : Sent Stewie Re: Alfresco same level as inside of house 12Jun 05, 2014 6:00 pm This is interesting as my alfresco and adjoining dining areas are the same level and under the main roof. There is a 1c step down form alfresco to yard though. I did question the builder and the alfresco slab will be poured separately from the house slab and then both will be tiled. I do not think there should be much, if any water ingress as the overhang of the alfresco ceiling is 5m where the door opens. The house orientation would be such that rain would rarely come in the alfresco side where the door opening is on. Ideally the track for the 2 panel stacking door should be inset as it will sit on the concrete with tiles on either side of the track so it should be approx the same level. I would have thought one brick step down would be sufficient. Any thoughts? Re: Alfresco same level as inside of house 13Jun 05, 2014 9:12 pm Quote: I did question the builder and the alfresco slab will be poured separately from the house slab and then both will be tiled. If the slab is not continuous, then termite barriers will be required, as termites can enter unseen under the tiles through the crack between the house slab and the alfresco slab. This applies if you build in an area where termites are known to exist (which is much of mainland Australia). AS 3660.1 Termite Management sets out the recommended building practice for new constructions including where new & existing slabs join. Any reputable pest control company should be familiar with AS 3660.1 and would know exactly how to go about protecting your house from termite attack via your alfresco area. Re: Alfresco same level as inside of house 14Jun 05, 2014 10:11 pm The type of door system is irrelevant. If you can show that termite protection and storm water is controlled, and whatever system used is certified by a building surveyor, and it's shown on your building permit, your fine. (It's that simple ) Re: Alfresco same level as inside of house 15Jun 05, 2014 11:06 pm The slab for the garage is usually poured separately from the house as well I thought. Would it not be the same treatment for the garage as for the alfresco. I thought termites would attack wood and my house is concrete and double bricks. The roof has wood but that is treated so it should be resistant. That only leaves cupboards and wardrobes, oh yes the cedar lining on the alfresco. I will still ask the builder though as its worth confirming. Re: Alfresco same level as inside of house 16Jun 06, 2014 6:37 am Garage slabs are poured with the house in the east where the houses are brick veneer.Termites have been thrown into the fray but if the alfresco slab is poured integral there is no issue there. Back on the, the problem in keeping the slabs the same height is the inside height of the aluminium door sill is about 40mm higher that drain holes on the outside of the door sill. A strip drain (a nice one will cost $150/m) needs to go on the outside at the drain hole depth to carry water away or else you are left with a dam. So if you have a 3 door stacker with screens on the outside plus the drain you have a recess around 250mm you have to step over. Unless you go to a commercial door system with a flat sill. Now your talking big bucks. So all up with the extra drainage, concrete labour in setting up and pouring a rebate in the slab, and the strip drain your not getting any change from $1K. IMO unless its for wheelchair access its really not worth it. Set your alfrecso slab 40mm lower, rebate the door into the slab and you end up with a nice clean flow through from in to out with a small 40mm step down, no extra costs and no water issues. Re: Alfresco same level as inside of house 17Jun 06, 2014 8:21 am Quote: The slab for the garage is usually poured separately from the house as well I thought. Would it not be the same treatment for the garage as for the alfresco. Most project homes I've seen get everything poured at once and usually as one continuous monolithic slab. That's how I'd pour them too. No problems with termite ingress there. mgilla, it was an upmarket home worth $2.5m+ and the windows and doors looked heavy duty so I suspect you are right that they were commercial grade. I did like the fact that everything was the same level but I guess that you pay for the privilege. I think if you can eliminate any trip hazards like shower hobs, changes in floor level from hallways to bathrooms/laundries, carpeted areas to tiled areas, inside to outside access etc then a house is a safer place for everyone, especially toddlers or in the case I mentioned earlier - an older relative. A 40mm stepdown I could handle ( ours is 50mm which is how it was when we bought the place ) but I've been to a lot of homes where it is a lot more than this - unnecessarily so. If I was building new I'd be eliminating as many steps as possible - this is also part of building a multi-generational home or universal living which the state and federal governments are trying to push. Stewie Re: Alfresco same level as inside of house 18Jun 06, 2014 7:33 pm We have done this post build. Now I'm not sure if it's legal! Did research at the time and concreter advised it was ok. Anyway absolutely love the no step. No jar to the back! No weather has touched the slab after two winters so no issue with flooding. Alfresco is south facing though and winter rain comes in from the north west. We have two triple stacker doors opening to the alfresco. The house is tiled and the alfresco will also be tiled With the same tiles. Slab is a few mm lower at the moment to allow for times. isn't a garage level with the rest of the house a given? pretty sure they 'came around' long time ago. if you have a flat block, the garage is usually level with the rest… 1 17525 they can, it's a fairly standard solution when the slab isn't recessed. the falls need to be in the main floor, if it hasn't been done then you need to ask them to redo… 4 6586 interesting situation what happened after builder issued final invoice? did you list as defect or not does the building surveyor have any responsibility? ie. issuing… 13 46961 |