Browse Forums General Discussion 1 May 21, 2014 9:39 pm Looking for some advice/personal experiences. My husband and I bought a block of land with a delapidated house on it late last year which we have now demolished and are ready to construct a new home on. A boundary survey today revealed the fence dividing our block and the neighbouring property is 28cm out, meaning that over the length of the 45m deep block there is 12 sqm of land we have paid for on their side of the fence. The surveyor told us he needed to report this to the Lands Titles Office and that we could basically give the neighbours the option of either moving all the fences back to the correct position (they are unlikely to want to do this as they have a huge shed just inside the fence line in their backyard which would be a nightmare to shift) or ask them to purchase the land from us. Has anyone had experience with this issue? I am really scared about getting off on the wrong foot with these people but I also feel that we paid for that land, we're entitled to it/to be paid for It! And if they were to buy it , would the price be determined from what we paid at auction in September 2013? Or the council rate value? We are in SA if that helps. Thanks. Re: Boundary survey shows neighbours are occupying our land 2May 21, 2014 9:54 pm I would suggest the fence as this happen to me except I had my rear against two neighbours. I tried to calculate the land value (council land value) against the price I paid and also spoke to a Conveyancer and he said the land transfer / fees etc was not worth the neighbour buying the land off me. Land is 12.15m with one 20cm off one neighbour nd the other 25cm. Cheers boosta (also in Sa) http://boostaoakfordsa.wordpress.com Site works: 26/8/14 Trench: 2/9/14 Slab: 8/9/14 Frame: 18/9/14 Bricks: 24/10/14 2nd fix: 24/11/14 Handover: End Feb 2015 Re: Boundary survey shows neighbours are occupying our land 3May 22, 2014 12:47 pm You dont say what size your block is. On an acre, who cares? On a 500m2 suburban block, different kettle of fish. That could make the difference between compliance and non compliance with setbacks if you build anything. Get some town planning advice maybe?
The fact that the neighbour has incorrectly sited a shed on your land is not your problem at all, its his. First thing you need to do is legally advise you neighbour he is encroaching on your land, and that you do not give permission for this. This avoids him taking "adverse possession" of the land after 15 years. Have an informal talk first , take a witness, and serve him with the letter during your talk. ITs here where you will learn whether he/she is an a55hole or not, Unfortunately during fence disputes, approx 50% of people seem to be a55holes so its the luck of the draw. So decide whats more important to you. Cow towing to your neighbour for the sake of good relations, or asserting your rights to gain maximum use of your property. The value will normally be the relevant % of the price you paid for your land, not the rateable value which is usally far less. If you cant settle it amicably, you can lodge an application in the Supreme Court to have it heard. Its a simple argument, you could represent yourself, no lawyer needed if you are willing to invest a little time looking on their website to learn about court procedures. (Qld is good like that, SA, well dunno) If you want to win, design a house and shed that is built to the minimum setback to that boundary. The neighbours encroachment is then impeding on your enjoyment and use of your own land. You win hands down. (I think) Re: Boundary survey shows neighbours are occupying our land 5May 22, 2014 12:53 pm Ari Did you have a solicitor when you purchased the place? Shouldn't they have picked this up before you settled? How would they pick it up? Solicitors dont actually look at properties, let alone measure anything. A smart buyer will always initially measure the apparent boundaries on any block they buy (at least urban blocks anyway). Re: Boundary survey shows neighbours are occupying our land 6May 22, 2014 12:55 pm qebtel Ari Did you have a solicitor when you purchased the place? Shouldn't they have picked this up before you settled? How would they pick it up? Solicitors dont actually look at properties, let alone measure anything.. I guess my Solicitor is different to yours then as they have always organised a survey. I just thought that was standard. It certainly "makes sense" to me to get one done. Re: Boundary survey shows neighbours are occupying our land 7May 22, 2014 12:59 pm Ari I guess my Solicitor is different to yours then as they have always organised a survey. I just thought that was standard. It certainly "makes sense" to me to get one done. ITs not std in Qld, but an add-on option. You'd be looking at $800 extra as a minimum, and people just dont want that added to their already substantial conveyancing fees. As i said above, if the apparent boundaries check out, not really necessary. But If you measure and detect a discrepancy, then a survey might be wise. Re: Boundary survey shows neighbours are occupying our land 8May 22, 2014 1:11 pm I have a similar issue. Building sites, fences etc used to be set out using a tape measure, string, theodolite & staff. Today building sites are set out using GPS equipment. The 2 types of technology do not always give the same results. There is a vacant block of land next to my house. When someone planned to build next door the block was surveyed and re-pegged. The location of the new pegs did not match the existing original survey pegs. (the original pegs were still there as my block had not been fenced) The difference was nearly twice yours. I valued the good relations with my neighbours more than a few centimetres of land so I did nothing. Re: Boundary survey shows neighbours are occupying our land 9May 22, 2014 1:52 pm Building the Dream Looking for some advice/personal experiences. My husband and I bought a block of land with a delapidated house on it late last year which we have now demolished and are ready to construct a new home on. A boundary survey today revealed the fence dividing our block and the neighbouring property is 28cm out, meaning that over the length of the 45m deep block there is 12 sqm of land we have paid for on their side of the fence. The surveyor told us he needed to report this to the Lands Titles Office and that we could basically give the neighbours the option of either moving all the fences back to the correct position (they are unlikely to want to do this as they have a huge shed just inside the fence line in their backyard which would be a nightmare to shift) or ask them to purchase the land from us. Has anyone had experience with this issue? I am really scared about getting off on the wrong foot with these people but I also feel that we paid for that land, we're entitled to it/to be paid for It! And if they were to buy it , would the price be determined from what we paid at auction in September 2013? Or the council rate value? We are in SA if that helps. Thanks. You are talking about that you bought dilapidated house and your neighbour already has a shed along the fence. From that I deduce that the present fence has been there for more than 15 years and because of neighbours possible claim under adverse possession you could be whistling dixie. Before settlement you should have received advice from your lawyer to satisfy yourself of the location and measurement of the land you are buying. That would have been the time to do it. Ordinary person measuring may not pick up errors of say 50mm but 280mm is well within ordinary competence. If you did not satisfy yourself then well? There are even more horrific stories in people completely mis identifying the land they were buying. On the face of it I think it's too late to do anything about it except throw good money after bad in a dispute. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Boundary survey shows neighbours are occupying our land 10May 22, 2014 4:26 pm I've done a bit of a guide to adverse possession on my blog which includes the time scales for various states herel http://www.anewhouse.com.au/2013/12/how ... g-a-block/ The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: Boundary survey shows neighbours are occupying our land 11May 23, 2014 12:36 am Hi All Thanks for your posts and the PM's and to the Mrs for posting while I was away for work. A bit of further info: The block is 670m2, 16.15 wide or 15.77 according to the fences. This is significant when trying to fit a double frontage, double garage house on the block. Preliminary advice from the boundary surveyor is that the house with the shed is not on our land, in fact, the fence indicates we have 10cms of their land. The neighbour on the other side has 38cms of our land. So if this is correct (subject to further surveys) there are no structures encroaching our land. A conveyancer did the title transfer, there is no requirement in SA for them to establish boundaries or anything like that. The shed 'on the boundary' was built in 2011. Council approval doc's recommend they get a boundary survey. They didn't... However this could now be irrelevant if they are 10cm's inside their boundary. The neighbour with the 38cm of our land - This fence would be 5 yrs old max. The Fences Act 1975 says the 'position of the fence does not give rise to title by adverse possession'. Google (I know not always reliable) indicates that you are purchasing the title as per the Lands Title Office, not the land between the fences, as fences aren't the official boundary. I will let you know how it pans out. Re: Boundary survey shows neighbours are occupying our land 12May 23, 2014 9:45 am I may be wrong but are boundary set backs not measured from the boundary line. This would mean the width of set back from house to fence would be 50mm less. Just a thought. This from your duplicate post: They will most likely want their surveyor to assess as well. This happened to my mother but her block was not vacant. I dont think it was as much either so better to avoid the drama. Although you have paid for it you could look at it this way, your building will just be 28cm closer to the fence although the boundary set back will be correct. I would look at your pan and see what impact it is going to have. If the side was going to be a set back of a meter then your house would move as 700mm is a little squishy, less so if the set back is 1.5m. Worth having a discussion with the neighbour and assessing the options. I would ask the council for advice to follow. Re: Boundary survey shows neighbours are occupying our land 13May 23, 2014 2:07 pm Building the Dream The block is 670m2, 16.15 wide or 15.77 according to the fences. This is significant when trying to fit a double frontage, double garage house on the block. Setback on a 16m frontage will most likely be an issue of you are building a modern sized house and garage. So you want to get the boundaries right to "build the dream". Building the Dream Preliminary advice from the boundary surveyor is that the house with the shed is not on our land, in fact, the fence indicates we have 10cms of their land. The neighbour on the other side has 38cms of our land. So if this is correct (subject to further surveys) there are no structures encroaching our land. Remember this applies to any part of a structure - gutters, eaves, etc. the shed may not encroach your airspace either. Building the Dream The Fences Act 1975 says the 'position of the fence does not give rise to title by adverse possession'. It says Notwithstanding the provisions of the Real Property Act. I suggest you read Sec 21 of Real Property (Registration of Titles) Act 1945 . Adverse possession is real, the tenets of which are is enshrined in common law, because it relates to possession of property. Building the Dream Google (I know not always reliable) indicates that you are purchasing the title as per the Lands Title Office, not the land between the fences, as fences aren't the official boundary. Correct. But it doesnt protect you from an adverse possession claim in the future. IT is this important to get your fences set up reasonably accurately. Anyway, since the fences in question are new, its not an issue. But what I said previously now applies to your other neighbour. Note: Immediately when your survey pegs are in, photograph them, with rulers in place to reference points, so you can re instate them should they go missing. Also think about re-installing the pegs permanently in a cement base so the plot never needs re-surveying. Avoids future disputes. Re: Boundary survey shows neighbours are occupying our land 14May 23, 2014 2:26 pm qebtel wrote: "Note: Immediately when your survey pegs are in, photograph them, with rulers in place to reference points, so you can re instate them should they go missing. Also think about re-installing the pegs permanently in a cement base so the plot never needs re-surveying. Avoids future disputes." Good point and it is easy to do and record it because everyone now has camera in their phone In commercial building we always used offset grids to be able to preserve boundaries even when we built on them and removed original markings. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Boundary survey shows neighbours are occupying our land 15Sep 10, 2014 9:15 am I am a first home buyer and with the situation am at this stage a block is now back on the market and the land sales lady has advised me. The land is the same size as my other block 512m2 but its 11000 cheaper. The right hand side has just put up a fence and the rear end has got a fence as well, as for the block itself the peg markings has been removed and there is no clear indication of the markings on the left hand side of the block. I spoke with the lady yesterday and she said measure 16 meters from the right hand side of the fence. Any advise of what i should do before signing any contract to secure the land. Re: Boundary survey shows neighbours are occupying our land 16Sep 10, 2014 9:26 am Have a look around near the fence, the exact boundary peg should be a metal pin/peg which is flush with/in the ground and could easily be covered with soil. It may well still be there but the timber marker may be removed. The metal pin is the boundary, not the timber stake. If there is nothing, when you go to build, your builder will want a boundary survey which can cost $800-1500 depending on what's required. Maybe negotiate with the person selling the land that you want them to re-survey it prior to you purchasing it. They would have surveyed it at some point previously if it is a sub division. Re: Boundary survey shows neighbours are occupying our land 17Sep 11, 2014 9:54 am Thanks Building the dream. I have contacted her and she will be in contact. Question: if a land is now ready to build is this good news for me on the other hand due to finance from the first buyer they lost the land and thats how it was offered to me because its around the same area I was looking at and its 11000 cheaper than my block. It could be just a matter of waiting for the builder right...the reason y im asking is that how would that apply to paying for the land. Cheers hope to hear from any advise/comments. I am looking at building in melton Penny royal thru homesolution by m#tr#con.... Re: Boundary survey shows neighbours are occupying our land 18Sep 11, 2014 9:58 am I'd suggest you speak to your bank or mortgage broker about how they would structure the loans and how the fist home buyers grant will apply. Re: Boundary survey shows neighbours are occupying our land 19Sep 11, 2014 1:38 pm Quote: Have a look around near the fence, the exact boundary peg should be a metal pin/peg which is flush with/in the ground and could easily be covered with soil. It may well still be there but the timber marker may be removed. The metal pin is the boundary, not the timber stake. Depending on the original surveyor, sometimes they will put a benchmark and/or pin in the top of the kerb. Stewie ask the surveyor for clarification would be the logical approach 1 20132 A survey must’ve completed by a certified surveyor. This form part of every DA requirement 3 223604 https://form.jotform.com/240284569218058 Please spare a moment to fill out this survey form for a project. You stand a chance to win a digital gift voucher. Legitimate… 0 2822 |