Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Apr 13, 2014 10:55 pm So I have just been informed that I can't get main gas to my house. So I have been given the following four options for my hot water system. So which would you pick and why? (or if not, why not) 1. LPG provision (bottled gas) and still keep the standard hot water system. This will cost $380 plus $30 per appliance. 2. Underground LPG tank. Approx $2050 3. Solar Electric Hot Water in lieu of Std. From $4700 4. Electric heat pump. From $3140 My neighbours have tried gathering support for gas mains, but got denied and not going to be $14k to get it installed Re: No Gas, 4 choices. Which one 2Apr 14, 2014 12:21 am I'd say a good quality heat pump. Why? Maybe because I'm a little bit of a greenie, & would like to limit energy use. If you're considering solar PV panels, you could then run the heat pump in the day (when the air is the warmest & the heat pump is the most efficient), powered by your PV for virtually free. Quite high capital outlay, with very low running costs. You haven't said what climate you live in. Solar hot water can be a good bet up north (can use flat plates up there), but the further south you go the less viable solar becomes, due to the increased costs of (inefficient electric) boosting. Also further south the more expensive evacuated tube solar become more appropriate. You must have an unshaded north (or maybe west) facing roof. It's a high capital outlay, particularly for evac tube solar. I've heard bottled LPG can be a very, very expensive way to heat a house. I guess a large tank would be a bit cheaper for running costs? If you are in a cold climate, & decide on the heat pump route, be careful with the heat pump you choose. Not all heat pumps are appropriate in this climate, some will run an (inefficient) electric booster to thaw themselves out. Get a CO2 base heat pump, as they perform better than others in lower temperatures. Note that all heat pumps will have reduced performance in low tempertures. Look for charts of their COP (coefficient of performance) vs temperature. Don't quote me on these figures, but I believe a good heat pump has a COP of 3 to 4 in ideal conditions. That is, for every 1kW of energy used by the heat pump, it heats the water with 3 to 4 kW. This COP reduces to 2 to 2.5 in cold climates (-5C). For reference, an electric heater has a COP of 1, 1kW consumed to produce 1kW of heat. Also, one complaint with heat pumps is the noise they produce. This seems to be the case for the older, & poorer quality units. It sounds like the newer good quality heat pumps are very quiet. I haven't done any calculations on costs, & have no real experience on this subject, this is just what I've read. Particularly over on the ata forums (lots of information over there). Re: No Gas, 4 choices. Which one 3Apr 14, 2014 1:00 am Sorry but was just wondering what your standard hot water system is eg. Storage or instantaneous. I am currently building my third house without mains gas. Have had solar edwards with electric booster - never again! So many problems and had a life span of 2 years before being replaced. Definitely not worth the initial outlay. Our last place had rinnai instantaneous- awesome in comparison. My other half loves baths and would fill our huge ensuite tub nearly everyday. Even so only averaged 4 to 5 bottles a year. Re: No Gas, 4 choices. Which one 4Apr 14, 2014 8:24 am Are you planning on having any other gas appliances?heating? cooking? etc What's the power supply like where you are? Are there many power failures etc. Do you have/plan on having young kids in the future? We decided not to have any gas as we were not going to be using it for any other appliances. Seemed a great plan, initially. Our kids are older. No issues with warming milk, older enough to have a sandwich if there was no power etc. BUT were we are we seem to get quite a few power failures and lots of surges and brownouts and in winter, each winter there has been at least one storm which has knocked the power out for days. ( country town) Novelty wears off when you can't boil a kettle or have a hot meal after a while. Like Asha we have had issues with our Solar hws. Great in summer BUT...The water here causes the heating element to die. Even when we got the super tough, suited to our water it lasted less than 2 years. Expensive to replace the element on such a regular basis and not fun in winter without hot water. Re: No Gas, 4 choices. Which one 5Apr 14, 2014 8:54 am Cheers Guys, I live in Metro South Australia. No issue with power outages (1 a year if we are lucky). I had intended to have gas cooker as well, but will probably have to go electric now. The standard that was in my quote was a gas instantaneous system. A good friend of mine is trying to warn me away from solar hot water, but I have been told gas bottle solution will be expensive Re: No Gas, 4 choices. Which one 6Apr 14, 2014 9:14 am ST13 Forgot to mention we also had a gas hotplate (with electric oven). Needless to say we are having the same setup this time. Re: No Gas, 4 choices. Which one 7Apr 14, 2014 9:38 am asha ST13 Forgot to mention we also had a gas hotplate (with electric oven). Needless to say we are having the same setup this time. So, If I'm reading this correctly you used the gas bottle solution? Did you find any negatives? Only 4 -5 gas bottles a year doesn't seem like much at all. I wonder how much that works out to be. Re: No Gas, 4 choices. Which one 8Apr 14, 2014 9:56 am Yes we used the gas bottle option - sorry if this didnt come across too clearly. We pay $108 per bottle delivered. We are currently back on mains gas with gas storage water system and gas hotplate as we are renting whilst building - for comparison our first bill for roughly 2.5 months was $151.30. Even if I used a bottle every two months at our last place it still works out cheaper per year. Re: No Gas, 4 choices. Which one 9Apr 14, 2014 12:52 pm My friend has solar HWS and hates it. It pretty much runs on the booster year round, and she wishes she never got it. My parents have a heat pump (I think it was through Chromagen, so not great quality as it definitely wasn't as expensive as what you've been quoted), they've been in the house for nearly three years and haven't had a problem with it. There was always enough hot water for all of us - even when we were living with them, so four adults showering at least once (usually twice) a day. I have gas (instantaneous) and I love it! We only go through gas bottle every 6 months approx (only 2 adults), costs us $125 each time - we also have a gas oven and do a fair bit of baking. We have a gas cooktop so we needed the gas connection anyway. We've never not had hot water, and can even have two people showering at the same time and not feel a drop in temperature. We are planning on building again next year and will use gas again. Nowhere in our region has mains gas available. 1st build: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=59376 *New*-2nd build: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=70324&p=1154282#p1154282 Re: No Gas, 4 choices. Which one 10Apr 14, 2014 1:13 pm I have solar and have to run the booster maybe 3 times per year - but I live in Central Qld so we have warm days, even in winter. You can get circulating systems to isolate your water from the panels if you have problems with corrosion. Re: No Gas, 4 choices. Which one 11Apr 14, 2014 10:32 pm stellabella My friend has solar HWS and hates it. It pretty much runs on the booster year round, and she wishes she never got it. Wow, I find that amazing that it just doesn't work for your friend. What sort of SHW is it, and whereabouts are they ? Surely there must be something wrong with the system for it needing to be boosted all through the year. Owner Building at Jimboomba Woods in Logan City Qld. Blog : http://bandlnewhomebuild.blogspot.com H1 thread : viewtopic.php?f=38&t=68283 . Re: No Gas, 4 choices. Which one 12Apr 15, 2014 1:58 pm perhaps too much shade on the panels? also consider your household heating? how will you warm your house? Re: No Gas, 4 choices. Which one 14Apr 15, 2014 2:36 pm kexkez perhaps too much shade on the panels? also consider your household heating? how will you warm your house? That's what I was suspecting too, but it is yet to be confirmed. I would like to think that the installer of the SHW system advised them about a shading issue, but some companies are only interested in being paid, damn the customer afterwards. Owner Building at Jimboomba Woods in Logan City Qld. Blog : http://bandlnewhomebuild.blogspot.com H1 thread : viewtopic.php?f=38&t=68283 . Re: No Gas, 4 choices. Which one 15Apr 15, 2014 10:25 pm My parents use gas bottles for their heating, cooking and the BBQ is piped in too. They think it's great, and it doesn't seem to cost that much. (They are pretty thrifty with everything, so would complain if it was expensive. They don't even call me on my mobile - way to costly!). I'd go with the gas bottle option personally. We have instantaneous gas hot water - love it! My Building Thread https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=66087 Re: No Gas, 4 choices. Which one 16Apr 16, 2014 12:27 pm A fifth option would be to have 3 phase power and instantaneous hot water. We have this in our current place and it works well. The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: No Gas, 4 choices. Which one 17Apr 16, 2014 12:57 pm 3. I think it is a gr8 way to go. And - should save you money. Re: No Gas, 4 choices. Which one 18Apr 17, 2014 11:13 am I live in metro Adelaide but in a street without town gas available at an affordable price. I have a gas cook top with wok burner and a 70kg bottle lasts 2~3 years, I have a solar HWS on a north facing roof. It is about 20 years old. We have the anode replaced about every 4~5 years. We have replaced the element once, and have had some small leaks repaired. We turn the booster off in October and turn it on after Anzac day. We get fee hot water for 8 months of the year and electric boost in winter which is on "K" tariff which is very cheap. We do lose a little water in summer if we go away as the water gets too hot and boils off. My neighbour puts shade cloth over his solar hot water panels in summer to prevent this happening. Re: No Gas, 4 choices. Which one 19Apr 22, 2014 7:27 pm Cheers everyone. Just thought about my cooktop, my quote has it listed as gas, but if I don't go down the gas option, does anyone know how much it will cost to change it to an electric hot plates\cooktop? 4 10817 I want to build a decking to the drawn shape outlined in black. The problem is how close can I build to the gas hot water unit? Will I be able to build around it and be… 0 20219 you need a fridgie to answer but I would think you vac the whole system then add gas if you have a leak, unless it is new install with the gas already loaded, in that case… 1 3651 |