Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Sep 24, 2014 10:43 pm Just wondering, is anyone having problem with 2 large bookshelves full of books on their upstair timber construction houses? I am particularly fearful as the bookshelves looks quite heavy - and the current house with no furniture is already "creaking" when I walk around the upper floor and I am scared to death that the bookshelves might damage the house structurally if the deadload is too great for the joists to handle and the bookshelves might cause of the collapse of the whole floor! Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ As you can see, there is quite a massive span for the 2 bedrooms (bed 3 and bed 4) directly above the kitchen and dining room, and due to the open plan design the joists are sitting only on 2 timber bearers each with the most critical load being taken by the column at the corner of the sliding doors to Afresco. A single column that takes the whole load of the upper floor bedroom 3 and 4 and that really worries me. Plus I am looking at my IKEA bookshelves which are already sagging slightly under the load of the books (A LOT OF BOOKS!) and this also worry me. So, is anyone putting their heavy furnitures on their upper floor? Particularly is anyone living in Plantation Homes (Henley) Sahara Lux Q1 putting their heaviest furniture upstair without problem? (I have some real doubt about the quality of this particular builder to be honest - as I have seen how they did the framing in a lot of homes - often studs not straight or bent, nails missing the marks by miles plus studs not spaced properly, generally very sloppy job). "Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is almost always somebody screwed up." Re: Is HEAVY bookshelves on timber upper floor a problem? 3Sep 26, 2014 10:02 am Hi Dr House, We don't have this problem as our house is only single story but your reference to the top story "creaking" reminded me of one of Building Expert's posts on his blog: http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog/f ... you-think/ I'm not sure if "creaking" is the same as "bouncing" but, according to this, modern building materials such as engineered timber beams have lower resistance to dynamic loading than hardwood. That is to say that even if on paper they pass all the requirements of static loading design (strength and deflection) they will bounce around. Whether this would affect your bookcases or not I don't know - bookcases don't tend to walk around . Couldn't you ask your builder what load the top story has been designed to take? Also, if the bookshelves themselves are already sagging I would probably be looking at distributing the load a bit more by buying some more bookcases or just making piles on the floor. As Anthony Powell said "Books do furnish a room". Re: Is HEAVY bookshelves on timber upper floor a problem? 4Oct 05, 2014 8:32 pm Found some documents relating to how much the subfloor can take: https://law.resource.org/pub/au/ibr/as.1684.2.2010.html https://law.resource.org/pub/au/ibr/as.1684.3.2010.html In the non-cyclonic area, under section "3.6.4.3 Live loads (Q) Live loads shall be determined as follows: Roof and floor live loads Roof live loads up to 0.25 kPa do not need to be included in the calculation of total vertical gravity loads. Floor live loads (kN) shall be determined by multiplying the floor area (m2) supported by the individual stump, post, pier, or similar members, under consideration by 1.5 kN/m2. The value of 1.5 kN/m2 shall only apply to the general floor and deck areas of Class 1 buildings. For decks greater than 1.0 m above the ground, the live load contributed by the area of deck under consideration shall be 3.0 kN/m2 except for decks greater than 40 m2 where the live load reduces to 1.5 kN/m2. Other live loads In alpine and sub-alpine areas, the contribution of snow loads exceeding 0.2 kPa, determined in accordance with AS 1170.4, shall also be added to the live loads." I saw that the british and american standard have the same number : 1.5 kN/m2 which translate to 1500n/9.8 (gravity) = 153 kg/m2 Basically, the minimum the builder has to design the subfloor live load capacity to is 153 kg/m2, meaning you can probably put that much load around that (or more if you are adventurous) ballpark and the floor won't callapse on you. I currently put a very heavy office desk (I think this one is weighing around 60 kg) and a full ATX size desktop computer and a 24" LCD monitor on top of it plus me sitting just in front of the desk - I am guessing around 155 kg, and the floor "squeak" slightly if I try to move the table which kinda scares me. "Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is almost always somebody screwed up." Re: Is HEAVY bookshelves on timber upper floor a problem? 5Oct 06, 2014 9:04 am Dr House Basically, the minimum the builder has to design the subfloor live load capacity to is 153 kg/m2, meaning you can probably put that much load around that (or more if you are adventurous) ballpark and the floor won't callapse on you. I currently put a very heavy office desk (I think this one is weighing around 60 kg) and a full ATX size desktop computer and a 24" LCD monitor on top of it plus me sitting just in front of the desk - I am guessing around 155 kg, and the floor "squeak" slightly if I try to move the table which kinda scares me. That is incorrect the builder doesnt design the structure the engineer does and the certificate of occupancies states the buildings purpose.If you intend changing its purpose from bedroom to office/library where the loadings are very different then I suggest you have it designed for an office 4-5 kPa as opposed to 1-1.5kPa. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Is HEAVY bookshelves on timber upper floor a problem? 6Oct 06, 2014 12:12 pm I'd agree too. There is a world of difference between a seemingly empty bedroom ( OK a bed, chest of drawers and a light desk ) and an office with what you have described - desk, computer etc. plus a couple of big bookcases. As an exercise a couple of years ago I weighed what our main bookcase would come in at - an antique Australian cedar one 2m high x 1.4m wide x 450mm deep packed with books. The cabinet itself I estimate at 110 - 120kg. A quarter of the books I weighed in lots and they weighed approx 75kg. All up we had 400+kg in that one small area. If your upstairs office hasn't been designed for it I'd be careful about overloading that room as SBIM says despite what you think of the builder. Stewie Re: Is HEAVY bookshelves on timber upper floor a problem? 7Oct 07, 2014 12:20 am I am curious, don't people put computer desk + computer and bookshelves in their bedrooms? I just happened to own a lot of books, and I estimate that the bookcase (bought from IKEA) is around 20~30 kg (made of particleboards) and I think I have around 100 kg of books. I am kinda scared of putting it upstair so I have decided to just put it on the ground floor study now. On the other hand, I have put my heavy office desk (I am guessing 100 kg - made of heavy particleboards) and a full size ATX desktop computer which would weight it around 120 kg total, so far, the floor squeaks a little. My queen-size bed is also kind of heavy and that also worries me as I can't just "jump" into my bed like I used to, as I am now slowly "easing" myself into my bed. Am I just paranoid? Another thing, I definitely noticed the viberation issue when someone walking on the heels on the other end of the aisle on upstair I can feel the viberation in my own bedroom! The whole timber frame is making me paranoid and I felt like I am living in a glass house that could break if I just jump! I think part of the reason might be because we have timber laminate flooring on the whole upstair which definitely adds to the "feel" if compare to soft carpet which can absorb a lot of impact energy. "Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is almost always somebody screwed up." Re: Is HEAVY bookshelves on timber upper floor a problem? 8Oct 07, 2014 7:24 am Hi Dr House Yes you sound paranoid for which I do apologize for contributing to your state of mind. Better safe than sorry tho "Engineering is calculations with common sense thrown in" That has been passed down to 5 generations (of engineers) in our family. Calculations= Bookshelf + 2 people =3pka (point load) Common sense= it depends on where the load type is acting and a heap of other variables If the floor starts failing the serviceablity criteria, eg excessive deflections, vibrations, material appearance,etc, get it checked. There is a big difference between one bookshelf (point load) and a row of bookshelves (line load).hth Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Is HEAVY bookshelves on timber upper floor a problem? 9Oct 09, 2014 9:28 pm Well, common sense also tells me that a bedroom should be able to withstand more than 10 people standing in it - let's say a huge house warming party with 10 people going into a the bedroom.... assuming each person is weighing average of 85kg, that's 850kg of live load spread across the whole room, and on top of the heavy furnitures eg. queen size bed already in the room. And if these 10 people just happen to want to play some kind of kinky party game with girl piggyback on the guy - that's 170 kg of point load right there! I can't believe if someone just decided to do that and the floor would fail like that. "Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is almost always somebody screwed up." Re: Is HEAVY bookshelves on timber upper floor a problem? 11Oct 10, 2014 7:50 am Dr House Well, common sense also tells me that a bedroom should be able to withstand more than 10 people standing in it - let's say a huge house warming party with 10 people going into a the bedroom.... assuming each person is weighing average of 85kg, that's 850kg of live load spread across the whole room, and on top of the heavy furnitures eg. queen size bed already in the room. And if these 10 people just happen to want to play some kind of kinky party game with girl piggyback on the guy - that's 170 kg of point load right there! I can't believe if someone just decided to do that and the floor would fail like that. Dr House - amidst all the hyperbole you do have a point. And this may be one of the reasons why decks and balconies collapse ie not being aware of what load a structure has been designed to take. And with Australians growing bigger every year builders may have to start putting notices up in rooms alerting the occupants to how many people per weight can be in a room on the top level of a double story house at any one time! Re: Is HEAVY bookshelves on timber upper floor a problem? 12Oct 10, 2014 8:25 am Engineers and designers would have that room rated as a single or double bedroom - with the floor joists worked out for dead load and live load with a safety factor built in accordingly. If you have that increased weight all that would happen is that you would probably get more deflection in them and a bit more bounce as people move around. If you wanted to use that room as a loungeroom or for any of your other ahem, multi-person activities you should have told the builder at the design stage. You could also apply that to any other part of your build. Stewie Firstly, if your house is still under builder's warranty (10 years in Victoria) you should have no need to crawl into roof space but let the builder handle it, unless you… 3 5679 What size are the windows, double or single glazed, can I have a pic of the full windows inside & out? If you can see packers please take a pic. 1 12436 Engineering timber is certainly a less fuss option, times cheaper to supply and install and better withstands humidity. 1 16058 |