Browse Forums General Discussion Re: Guide to standards and Tolerances is useless! 21Sep 12, 2013 7:42 am Hi disgruntled You have brought up a very important point and that is that even if introduction of standards and tolerances was meant to be helpful it cannot be. In your example you have signed off for a premium job at a premium price but there is no premium standards and tolerances. It's all referenced to the minimum standard and is a perfect escape for poor or sub standard workmanship. To make it worse it is supported by BC and makes it look legitimate. It's not. The fact that you re not making any progress with BACV is hardly surprising, how will they go against the standards and tolerances they have endorsed? Besides they have no power over someone who does not play nice. Fortunately there is protection in legislation for this type of situations but it seems that you are bogged down because people helping you are not up to the job or else you would not be writing on this thread. If you want someone with the right expertise to help you you can PM Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Guide to standards and Tolerances is useless! 22Sep 12, 2013 8:24 am Thankyou "SaveH2O" for your response. It has certainly made for some interesting reading. Very difficult not to become cynical about the whole sysytem. It seems the more I educate myself the more I learn that many in the Industry (including those in government positions and the legal profession) are all in bed with eachother and simply there to fill their own pockets, not to perform roles that they are extremely well paid to do. I thought that we were becoming paranoid due to the extreme stress but there are many others in the same, if not worse positions. Amazed at what I read and certainly disappointed, but if anything more determined to do something about it. Re: Guide to standards and Tolerances is useless! 23Sep 12, 2013 9:39 am It always helps to know what you are up against. I think that your best course of action at this point is to get someone who knows the ropes and who will work with your best interest in mind. "building-expert" doesn't shy away from the task. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Guide to standards and Tolerances is useless! 24Sep 12, 2013 12:24 pm disgruntled Any advice would be appreciated. The system here in Victoria is a joke. Dont worry its a joke in every state. Stories like this are as old as the hills. I hate to say it, but unless you go onsite most days during a build to double check everything, expect sh1t like this to happen. Do not rely on a Site supervisor whose performance is unknown. thats the way the world is today. Re: Guide to standards and Tolerances is useless! 25Jun 11, 2014 7:18 pm I found out that it doesn't say anything about standards and tolerances for timber that can be used for structural and load bearing studs. My builder damaged the perimeter bottom plates when he had to move them to get the right room size. And now says it's OK with Australian standards with no proof and I don't have any proof to say it isn't. Looks like the builder is gonna win..Really disappointing. Re: Guide to standards and Tolerances is useless! 26Jun 12, 2014 8:09 am Subzero_Aus I found out that it doesn't say anything about standards and tolerances for timber that can be used for structural and load bearing studs. My builder damaged the perimeter bottom plates when he had to move them to get the right room size. And now says it's OK with Australian standards with no proof and I don't have any proof to say it isn't. Looks like the builder is gonna win..Really disappointing. Your own private inspector should be able to assist you. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Guide to standards and Tolerances is useless! 27Jun 12, 2014 5:00 pm building-expert I have been a long time critic of Building Commission not only because of my own unsatisfactory experience with it and the dozens of my clients that have been let down by Building Commission inspectors but also because it is responsible for Guide to Standards and Tolerances that effectively condones defects and poor workmanship. For those that are interested I have a blog about defective brickwork that is passed off as complying with the guide http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog/g ... s-useless/ In a major blunder, my client's home was plastered without wall straightening Here we have our brand new VBA at work Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ What do you think? Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Guide to standards and Tolerances is useless! 28Jun 12, 2014 6:38 pm I think this is pathetic. The judgement is purely subjective on the part of the assessor which is given away by the use of the words "readily" and "normal". They are not being asked for an individual opinion as to whether this is acceptable; they are being asked to measure the defect against a standard which has already been set. Re: Guide to standards and Tolerances is useless! 29Jun 13, 2014 2:19 pm We had a ruling against our client because in our report we didn't specially call out the exact clause in the relevant Australian Standard, lessons learned Re: Guide to standards and Tolerances is useless! 30Jul 22, 2014 11:08 am wood bang We had a ruling against our client because in our report we didn't specially call out the exact clause in the relevant Australian Standard, lessons learned can you be more specific? Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Guide to standards and Tolerances is useless! 31Jul 22, 2014 12:26 pm building-expert In a major blunder, my client's home was plastered without wall straightening Here we have our brand new VBA at work http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u559/brankom10/VBAreport2dragged_zpsbe7428bc.png What do you think? I think that because the VBA inspector only referenced "The Guide to Standards and Tolerances 2007" (item nos. F & 9.11) in his report and because the Guide has no legal standing, the report should not have been accepted. Did anyone question why a Guide with no legal standing is allowed reference in a VBA report when only the BCA and Australian Standards should be? A few years ago, the use and legal standing of SSA HB 39, another well known guide produced by Standards Australia, was raised in the NSW Parliament. This guide was also widely used in the industry and even referenced at tribunals, in reports and on various (including Government) websites. Although the following transcript deals with a separate Guide and subject matter, the questions about industry Guide (SSA HB 39) and the answers given by the minister in regards to the Guides legal standing may interest readers... 2361—Fair Trading—AUSTRALIAN STANDARDS AND STANDARD HANDBOOKS Ms Hale to the Minister for Primary Industries, Minister for Energy, Minister for Mineral Resources, Minister for State Development representing the Minister for Fair Trading, Minister for Citizenship, and Minister Assisting the Premier on the Arts— 1. Has Standards Association of Australia Handbook (SAA HB) 39 1997 ever been cited in New South Wales legislation as the standard for determining compliance with gutter overflow requirements? If so, has it now been superseded by AS⁄NZS 3500.3.1998 and AS⁄NZS 3500.5.2000? 2. Do the current Building Code of Australia and the NSW Plumbing Code of Practice require compliance with the Australian Standards⁄New Zealand Standard (AS⁄NZS) 3500.3.2003? 3. Does the Office of Fair Trading require that its officials not refer to old standards such as SAA HB 39 1997 when those standards have been superseded by more recent standards? 4. Is the Minister or Commissioner for Fair Trading aware of SAA HB 39 1997 being referred to in any matter before the Consumer Trader and Tenancy Tribunal even after that standard was rendered obsolete? 5. Did Mr Norm Foster, the Department of Fair Trading's Acting Manager of Building Disputes, on a site inspection of a property in Cary Street, Leichhardt, referred to SAA HB 39 1997 and suggested that overflow measures consistent with that standard would be adequate? Answer... 1. SAA HB39 1997 has never been cited in NSW legislation to determine compliance with gutter overflow provisions. 2. The handbook has no legal standing. The Handbook draws together in one convenient document a number of Australian Standards that relate to the construction of a complete metal roof and⁄or wall system. It was introduced as a quick reference guide and compliments AS3500 and other relevant standards. 3. Yes. In NSW all plumbing work must comply with the NSW Code of Practice. The code stipulates that work must be in accordance with AS⁄NZS3500 unless there is a specific NSW variation. In so far as gutter installations are concerned there are no variations and as such the work must comply with AS⁄NZS3500.3 or part 5. Installing a gutter in accordance with the standard will meet the performance requirement of the Building Code of Australia. 4. I am advised that Standards Australia withdrew the publication of SAA HB 39 1997 in 2004 but is still available to be purchased. Fair Trading officers will refer to the applicable standard that was in force at the time the work was carried out. 5. The Office of Fair Trading was not aware of SAA HB39 1997 being referred to in any Consumer, Trader and Tenancy Tribunal matter. However, I understand as a result of this question Fair Trading notes that SAA HB39 1997 was referenced in the matter of O'Brien v C J M Rood Services Pty Ltd [2003] NSWCTTT 307 (24 March 2003). I am advised that in this matter the Handbook was incorrectly referred to as an Australian Standard when this is not the case. 6. Mr Foster referred to figure 5.6.2 from SAA HB39 1997 as a consideration of an overflow measure. He also referred to AS3500 and the Building Code of Australia as a means to address overflow provisions at the particular house in question. Question asked on 25 November 2008 (session 54-1) and printed in Questions & Answers Paper No. 78. Answer received on 17 December 2008 and printed in Questions & Answers Paper No. 84. http://parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/lc/qa ... enDocument EDITED: Some text tidy ups. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Guide to standards and Tolerances is useless! 32Jul 22, 2014 11:18 pm You can access the full Building Code of Australian through the Newcaste Library's digital collection. I have put the direct link on my blog... http://bendigowaldorf.blogspot.com/2014/07/access-construction-code-online-free.html Re: Guide to standards and Tolerances is useless! 33Jul 23, 2014 2:11 pm tlblhayward You can access the full Building Code of Australian through the Newcaste Library's digital collection. Not without attending we cant. The NCC is only accessible from library PCs or in print at the Information & Research Centre. Re: Guide to standards and Tolerances is useless! 34Jul 23, 2014 4:55 pm Just to expand on the BCA (NCC) referencing Australian Standards... The BCA is a primary document that references Australian Standards and sometimes other documents. An Australian Standard has no legal standing with the BCA unless the Australian Standard has been referenced by the BCA. In the event of a conflict between the BCA and referenced Standards, the regulatory system has a hierarchy that must be adhered to and the BCA, being the primary document, will have precedence over the Standards and other referenced documents. The hierarchy system is stated in the BCA. EDIT: It must be noted that if the BCA and Australian Standards did not exist, The Guide to Standards and Tolerances would not exist. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Building Standards; Getting It Right! Don't think they are designed for double brick. WA has a particular way of building and unfortunately that's the way a large amount of sills are finished. 3 7003 I believe this is correct. From the picture you can see the power was put in last so the electrician knew where the water was. Really it's a common sense issue more… 4 5152 2 8643 |