Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Apr 29, 2008 2:12 pm Hi All,
Just wanting to know if anyone has had any experience with consumer affairs. I have a painting issue with my builders, who have not replied to my second letter, & have been told by the building commission/consumer affairs that I can lodge a claim against them. I have well researched my complaint & feel that I am right to complain about this, so now I want to know what is involved with this next process. I am still waiting for some of my 3 month maintenance to be completed, which is why I haven't sent off a claim as yet. I would appreciate any information. Regards, Pip. Re: Any experience with consumer affairs? 2Apr 29, 2008 2:21 pm Pip, be very careful of how far you take this dispute as there are many people that have been right, and then virtually bankrupted at VCAT trying to prove it.
The only option you have is legal action. Both CAV and the BC will advise that you can go to BACV for a mediation but it is a waste of time if the builder doesn't want to cooperate as the rulings from BACV are non binding. BACV was a knee jerk reaction by Consumer Affairs and the Building Commission to try and satisfy consumer concerns at the removal of 'first resort' claims from you warranty insurance policies back in 2002. Now of course, the policies only cover you in the 'last resort' which literally means that even if your house is falling down with defects, you CANNOT trigger a claim unless the builder is insolvent, dead or dissappered. Yes, that does mean the insurance is worthless! You are poised here for a very expensive litigation so decide early how much you will spend before you simply cut your losses and either fix the painting yourself or just get over it. Sorry to be so blunt but I would hate to see you waste 10's of thousands of dollars on advice from the legal profession and consultants, only to be left high and dry when they still cannot force a settlement from the builder. Believe me, I hear of horror stories like this every second week! Builders are people too.... Re: Any experience with consumer affairs? 3Apr 29, 2008 2:33 pm Thanks for your quick reply "builda".
The cost of me getting the job fixed would most likely be a couple of thousand, which is why I am looking at BACV. I will try & resolve this with someone higher up in the company, but if I can't then I may have no choice, as this is not acceptable for a brand new house. Re: Any experience with consumer affairs? 4Apr 29, 2008 2:40 pm Just don't get sucked into a legal stoush over this.
You really do need to accept and understand one thing and that is that the system sucks bigtime. Unfortunately it is all we have here in Victoria and the Government have had their head in the sand over it for years. If we had a system like Queensland then your options would not be so limited and you could get resolution, at no cost, and within weeks whether or not the builder cooperated. Please keep us posted how you go. Builders are people too.... Re: Any experience with consumer affairs? 5Apr 29, 2008 7:38 pm Hi PIP,
Another option you may have up your sleeve is to contact your builders warranty insurer and speak with a representative of that company. You would have recieved a copy of your Home Owners Warranty Insurance with your contract documents. A chat with them will see a letter written to your builder outlining your concerns and requesting the builder to contact you within a set time period. Failing that contact the insurer, if its found that the builder is at fault and still will not rectify the insurer will rectify and recover cost's from the builder. A builders ability to provide Warranty Insurance is more important that the BPB registration which each builder has, no insurance - no building. This may be a better alternative that the BCAV which is as "builda" purports it to be is a shocker. This method may take up to 2 months to source a solution, is at no cost to yourself and may be an option in your considerations. Good Luck Re: Any experience with consumer affairs? 6Apr 29, 2008 8:14 pm I had a run in with a client a few years ago, and rang C/Affairs, the lady was great and gave me good advice, but she basically warned me about taking it too far as it would cost me a lot of money for an outcome we knew I would win.
My complaint was only $220 but for me it wasn’t the money, it was a case of the guy continually ripping tradespeople off and getting away with it! I then rang a solicitor; he knew who I was talking about without even saying his name. I was told by the solicitor the same thing…..be very careful and to drop it. Not worth it. In your case it is a lot more money involved…stop and have a real good think about it, there are ways around it for you without it costing you money! Pm me if you like…..I know most builders will not want to go down this path, so they will avoid it if they can. Internal and External Building and Colour Consultant Online - Worldwide http://www.denovoconcepts.com Re: Any experience with consumer affairs? 8Apr 30, 2008 10:23 am Hi All,
Thanks for your thoughts/ccomments. I was actually thinking about the warranty insurance so thanks 'sofar_sogood', I will now give them a call. Michelle, if you dont mind I might PM you with what the paint concerns are as I would like your opinion as I'm sure you would know a lot about this. (have to wait till I get home from work though). Thanks Pip. Re: Any experience with consumer affairs? 9Apr 30, 2008 7:47 pm Please don't waste your time with the Warranty Insurance. The policy you have bought is not worth the paper it is written on.
The advice given by sofarsogood, while well meaning and accurate 7 years ago, is not accurate advice today. Your current Builders Warranty policy only covers you against defects should the builder die, dissappear or become insolvent. It is crucial everyone understands this. It does not matter if your house is falling down with defects, unless one of those three triggers is established then you have NO claim. Whats more, establishing one of those triggers is a minefield in itself! You will find that the insurer will not even waste their time sending a letter to the builder because you don't have a claim in the first place. Solicitors who don't understand the system still try this tactic today and the insurers simply send the whole batch of documents back to them. Added to which, you will have a bigger legal fight trying to get your claim up than you would against the builder in the first place! In fact, I know many consumers that have spent 10's if not 100's of thousands of dollars in VCAT sending their builder broke and STILL cannot make a claim. Read this short Hansard from Mr Tony Robinson, current Minister for Consumer Affairs, who made this statement while a back bencher: http://www.builderscollective.org.au/docs/Hansard/Robinson220205.pdf Hope this helps. PM me if you wish and we can speak on the phone. Builders are people too.... Re: Any experience with consumer affairs? 10May 02, 2008 1:57 pm Builda
You are obviously very knowledgeable about this subject, may I ask you what in your opinion, the members of this forum who are yet to select a builder and yet to start building can do before they start in order to offer themselves the maximum protection from poor building work, slow construction times etc etc. Thank you for any advice Simon Building an architect designed home out of Insulated Concrete Forms on acreage in semi-rural SE Melbourne. Developer approval obtained, engineering complete, getting quotes ICF Construction 11May 02, 2008 5:47 pm Hi there,
i note you are building with I assume "Zego" ICF's, are you doing this as an owner builder or do you have a builder doing it for you. I built a home out of this product a few years back and had a few problems with water ingress. Perhaps i could offer some handy advice. (should you require it) PM would probably be a better option. Re: Any experience with consumer affairs? 12May 02, 2008 5:57 pm [quote="builda"]Please don't waste your time with the Warranty Insurance. The policy you have bought is not worth the paper it is written on.
Even though as "Builda" correctly suggest's the insurance will only kick in so to speak in the event of death, insolvency etc, all RBP's must meet certain criteria set down by the warranty insurer to be eligable to insure. this criteria although predominantly financial also pertains to complaints recieved regarding unproffesional workmanship and conduct. A letter tp the warranty insurer will action a letter to the RBP, who either rectifies or suffers damage to his eligability to insure and may have the insurance withdrawn. Remember no isurance no builder. At least another avenue of opportunity if all else is failing around you. Re: Any experience with consumer affairs? 13May 03, 2008 12:03 am Quote: A letter to the warranty insurer will action a letter to the RBP, who either rectifies or suffers damage to his eligability to insure and may have the insurance withdrawn. Look, at best this is a long shot and I doubt the insurer will bother to write any such letter to the builder (Registered Building Practitioner -RBP) as they have no interest in helping you to make a claim whatsoever when a claim trigger doesn't exist. Just the same you can give it a try but don't hold your breath. Remember that the insurers set up the last resort insurance system in 2002 specifically so that they didn't have to wade into these sorts of diputes as they just wanted to handball it straight back to the regulators and wash their hands of all us pesky builders and consumers. At the end of the day, the insurer is not going to withold eligibiilty from a builder because of a letter you write in relation to a painting issue because witholding eligibility is a very serious move for an insurer to take as it effectively shuts off a someones livlihood in their chosen profession. While some may deserve it, there are enormous legal obligations should an insurer decide to take that action. This was not the case pre-2002 when these policies were first resort and it was in the insurers interest to settle disputes BEFORE they had to end up paying a claim. Now the insurers don't care about the dispute as they don't pay out on claims unless your builder is dead, dissappeared or insolvent - regardless of how bad the painting is! Sofar_sogood, please accept that the system has changed dramatically from when you recieved your Home Owners Warranty (HOW) policy. In fact, that logo from HIA has not been on policies for a few years now. The scenario you paint was in effect for all policies written pre July2002 but is a vastly different beast now. Builders are people too.... Re: Any experience with consumer affairs? 14May 03, 2008 8:03 pm What are we supposed to do? From what I understand, a builder can do a ** job or not rectify a problem and we don't have anywhere to turn to. Is it a case of once you've paid your money you had better hope nothing goes wrong or else you will be financially responsible. It doesn't seem fair. Re: Any experience with consumer affairs? 15May 04, 2008 2:09 pm Pip, you are absolutely correct - it is not fair.
We have a terrible system in Victoria and NSW and it adversely affects both builders and consumers - there are no winners except the lawyers, trade associations and insurance companies. As builders we cannot even instigate a BACV mediation, so even if we know that there is a dispute looming and even if we are right we cannot ask to have an independent umpire have a look at the matter. We either need to decide early if we are prepared to go legal or simply cop it and move on. This is especially significant for smaller builders who simply do not have the resources to even defend themselves in the legal system as the army of consultants and so called 'experts' required for any building dispute makes the costs prohibitive for all parties. As I said at the start, be very wary about being sucked into a soul destroying legal battle over your painting as I can tell you it is simply not worth it. By all means send your legal letters to start with, but again be very careful of escalating it unless you are prepared to invest at least $10000 - $20000 in it for starters. Builders are people too.... Re: Any experience with consumer affairs? 17May 05, 2008 10:39 pm Quote: I don't know if this is suitable for your situation, but maybe an arbitrator could help Whatever you do, don't do this! Arbitration was banned from domestic building contracts 20 years ago because of the obscene costs and the fact that an arbitrator was not necessarily independent but had the authority of a Supreme Court judge. Arbitration is still legal under MBA contracts in Tasmania and it has caused enormous heartache and hurt for some consumers. The costs are simply too prohibitive when one party digs in. As Casa2 says, try BACV and also try to beg the directors of the company to see reason. If they ignore BACV advice then you can always threaten to picket their display homes or something until your painting is fixed. I'll guarantee that will get a response! Builders are people too.... Hi All, I have been dealing with icare for insurance in completing our house after our original builder went bust. We have gotten to tender stage and one of the companies… 0 16000 I apologise for any confusion, but your understanding is correct. We approached our situation differently based on advice from… 11 37572 Last year, 50% of their staffs left. Is it going be bankruptcy this year? 10 31094 |