Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Apr 17, 2008 2:58 pm This was posted elsewhere, and I thought it worth posting.
CHLORINE BLEACH IS INEFFECTIVE IN KILLING MOLD FOR THESE REASONS: (1) The object to killing mold is to kill its “roots”. Mold remediation involves the need to disinfect wood and wood-based building materials, all of which are porous materials. Thus, chlorine bleach should not be used in mold remediation as confirmed by OSHA’s Mold Remediation/ Clean Up Methods guidelines. The use of bleach as a mold disinfectant is best left to kitchen and bathroom countertops, tubs and shower glass, etc. (2) Chlorine Bleach does kill bacteria and viruses, but has not been proven effective in killing molds on non-porous surfaces. Bleach itself is 99% water. Water is one of the main contributors of the growth of harmful bacteria and mold. Current situations using bleach re-grew and regenerated mold and bacteria twice the CFU counts than were originally found before bleaching, within a short period of time. Bleach is an old method used for some bacteria and mold. It is the only product people have known for years. The strains now associated within Indoor Air quality issues are resistant to the methods our grandmothers employed to clean-up mold.. (3) What potential mold 'killing' power chlorine bleach might have, is diminished significantly as the bleach sits in warehouses, on grocery store shelves or inside your home or business 50% loss in killing power in just the first 90 days inside a never opened jug or container. Chlorine constantly escapes through the plastic walls of its containers. (4) The ionic structure of bleach prevents Chlorine from penetrating into porous materials such as drywall and wood---it just stays on the outside surface, whereas mold has enzyme roots growing inside the porous construction materials---however, the water content penetrates and actually FEEDS the mold---this is why a few days later you will notice darker, more concentrated mold growing (faster) on the bleached area. (5) Chlorine Bleach accelerates the deterioration of materials and wears down the fibers of porous materials. (6) Chlorine Bleach is NOT registered with the EPA as a disinfectant to kill mold. You can verify this important fact for yourself when you are unable to find an EPA registration number for killing mold on the label of any brand of chlorine bleach. (7) Chlorine bleach off gases for a period of time. Chlorine off gassing can be harmful to humans and animals. It has been known to cause pulmonary embolisms in low resistant, and susceptible people. (8) Chlorine bleach will evaporate within a short period of time. If the area is not dry when the bleach evaporates, or moisture is still in the contaminated area (humidity, outside air dampness), you could re- start the contamination process immediately and to a greater degree. (9) Chlorine is a key component of DIOXIN. One of the earliest findings of dioxin's toxicity in animals was that it caused birth defects in mice at very low levels. This finding led to dioxin being characterized as "one of the most potent teratogenic environmental agents". The first evidence that dioxin causes cancer came from several animal studies completed in the late 1970's. The most important of these, published in 1978 by a team of scientists from Dow Chemical Company, led by Richard Kociba, found liver cancer in rats exposed to very low levels of dioxin. This study helped establish dioxin as one of the most potent animal carcinogens ever tested and, together with the finding of birth defects in mice, led to the general statement that dioxin is the "most toxic synthetic chemical known to man." Re: How NOT to kill mould 3Apr 17, 2008 3:03 pm royalblue Obviously American based author. In Australia, we have mould. A mould is what you use to make things, mold is what grows AFAIC. Re: How NOT to kill mould 5Apr 17, 2008 3:36 pm stonecutter1309 So what does kill mould? White vinegar (4 parts) to water (1 part) is proven to be the most effective product. However, measures need to be taken to reduce conditions in which mould thrives (damp, dark places with limited ventilation). Ash. Re: How NOT to kill mould 7Apr 17, 2008 3:45 pm The article states that chlorine bleach is not sutiable for killing mould in porous stuctures like wood. It works great on bathroom tiles. The product Exit Mould, from it's smell, is chlorine bleach based. Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: How NOT to kill mould 8Apr 17, 2008 4:12 pm The main reason it may 'work great' is it oxidises the colour of the mould ( the mould organism has melanine in it giving it its colour). Bleach bleaches it, rendering the organism invisible, along with the action of cleaning & rinsing away with the product and physical action which will remove it from smooth surfaces.
But why use such a toxic chemical as bleach in these cases anyway, when it could just as well be cleaned off the surfaces without it? Yes, Exit Mould and many similar bleach products are sold for mould removal. They bleach it, and feed the organism, so it grows back. Low & behold, they have to sell you more for a repeat performance! Who's winning here? Re: How NOT to kill mould 9Apr 17, 2008 4:27 pm royalblue The main reason it may 'work great' is it oxidises the colour of the mould ( the mould organism has melanine in it giving it its colour). Bleach bleaches it, rendering the organism invisible, along with the action of cleaning & rinsing away with the product and physical action which will remove it from smooth surfaces. But why use such a toxic chemical as bleach in these cases anyway, when it could just as well be cleaned off the surfaces without it? Yes, Exit Mould and many similar bleach products are sold for mould removal. They bleach it, and feed the organism, so it grows back. Low & behold, they have to sell you more for a repeat performance! Who's winning here? Thanks RoyalBlue, I’ll pass this information onto SWMBO! Re: How NOT to kill mould 10Apr 17, 2008 5:21 pm And here I am thinking I am clever for using bleach on my ceiling mould issue
Remind me to never use google for answers to my questions again And your right Ash, the bleach did take the awful yellow/brown staining off my ceiling and I thought it was because it must have killed the mould...off to apply some vinegar Re: How NOT to kill mould 11Apr 17, 2008 5:27 pm The belief that bleach kills mould is well entrenched, and there are still many who advocate its use.
Mycologia Australia are quick to discount this belief www.mould.com.au Ash. Re: How NOT to kill mould 12Apr 17, 2008 6:01 pm Great information, Ash....but just have to disagree with the link between chlorine and dioxins
Quote: Chlorine is a key component of DIOXIN Chlorine as found in domestic bleach is sodium hypochlorite (NaOCl) and I can't see how that is related to chlorines found in some dioxins. I agree that dioxins are really nasty but just don't agree with the article's link between the two. I just have a thing about unnecessary scaremongering...not by you, but the original article. cheers 'chelle We have a hand-over date...15/10...but I won't hold my breath! http://people-in-glass-houses.blogspot.com/ Re: How NOT to kill mould 13Apr 17, 2008 6:29 pm 'chelle,
I can't say how accurate every detail of the info is, and I'm not sure of it's source either. I'm not a chemist. However, I have every reason to believe the general message in the article, as I have met Heike Neumeister-Kemp. She is a world renowned mycologist, with an impressive list of credentials. She and her husband Peter Kemp (also highly credentialed) head Mycologia Australia. In Heike's lectures, she has stressed that many supposed mould killers including bleach have been proven ineffective. She has also proven the value of vinegar in these applications. Clearly, she has no commercial or other interests in promoting plain old vinegar. She is a scientist with a great deal to lose by promoting anything without scientific credibility. I don't believe this is a scare-mongering message, (although particularly in the USA, there are many parties that do scare-monger about mould generally, and have commercial interests in doing so). In many cases I know of, these proponents of various unproven chemical treatments for mould remediation view Heike with a degree of contempt. Ash. Re: How NOT to kill mould 14Apr 17, 2008 6:39 pm I always respect someone, with the appropriate qualifications, that proposes a solution that obviously has no commercial benefit to the person, such as using vinegar to kill mould, in this case. Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: How NOT to kill mould 16Apr 17, 2008 7:19 pm If you re-read my post Ash, I said that it was great information. I just disagreed with the link between chlorine and dioxins. As for the rest, I for one will be buying a big bottle of vinegar next time I'm at the supermarket. 'chelle We have a hand-over date...15/10...but I won't hold my breath! http://people-in-glass-houses.blogspot.com/ Re: How NOT to kill mould 17Apr 17, 2008 7:26 pm I understood your point in question, 'chelle.
Just thought I'd reiterate that the general message was sound (and backed up by qualified experts) although I'm not qualified to say that every detail was correct. Ash. Re: How NOT to kill mould 18Apr 17, 2008 8:53 pm OK.
To explain myself........I did major in biochemistry, but it has been I long time since I worked in this field, but I do still have that scientific tendency to be very sceptical of anything I read, especially if it pertains to anything vaguely biochemical. I don't consider myself an expert at all, but I thought I would check out this chlorine/dioxin link. As far as one can believe anything that is written on the net, there is some info to support the idea that if bleach comes into contact with organic materials (eg wood) it can produce dioxins (as in chlorine bleached wood pulp???? Living in Tassie, you think I would have made that link ). Another site says that it has to be chlorine gas in contact with the organic material and that chlorine gas is not released from bleach. Yet another site explains that if chlorine bleach is mixed with acid, chlorine gas is released (so what ever you do don't use bleach and vinegar ) And so it goes on and on.... So, yes Ash, I agree......don't use bleach. Sorry, I just like to check these things out for myself, which I should have done before my first post. So just feel free to tell me to shut-up and check it out for myself in future. 'chelle We have a hand-over date...15/10...but I won't hold my breath! http://people-in-glass-houses.blogspot.com/ Re: How NOT to kill mould 19Apr 17, 2008 9:45 pm 'chelle not at all! No reason whatsoever for you to apologise, and it is a good thing to question everything. Cripes, we'd all be in the mud if we took anything that is presented as gospel!
Its good to have a sceptical and scientific mind here, by all means. And yes a very good point..... NEVER mix chemicals together, unless you seriously know what you are doing. Some fairly benign substances can turn very dangerous when mixed with others! Ash. Re: How NOT to kill mould 20Apr 17, 2008 10:23 pm There was a show on ABC about six months ago, “Is your house killing you?” and the presenters said the same thing; Use vinegar not bleach. They claimed the vinegar worked because the mould spore couldn't stop absorbing it and eventually 'exploded'. This certainly doesn't look good. I would be engaging with an independent inspector to have a look at this. As for the unscheduled site visits, most builders are quite… 1 28290 The HIA contract, in the term & conditions section states that "Commencment" is deemed when the drainage is started or the piers are dug or the slab is formed up (incase… 2 6150 |