Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Sep 04, 2012 5:21 pm I'm in a bit of a pickle... I'm installing a floating floor DIY for the first time. So I asked my builder to tack on the skirting (as recommended in this forum) rather than using a nail gun to install it fully. Then I got back a quote for this extra service. Is it normal to cost several hundred dollars ($500+) to tack on the skirting instead of installing (skirting person and painter extras). I don't know what to do, leave the skirting off (I can get it raw, uncut) or get it fully installed and painted, and then remove it myself before I start doing my floating floors? Or should I get the cost of skirting refunded (I doubt I will get much back, maybe the cost of the materials) and ask someone else to install it for me? How much is it going to cost to get someone to install the skirting for me later? I would appreciate any advice you have for me. Re: Skirting decisions - Can't decide! 2Sep 05, 2012 1:07 pm If you try to remove it you stand the chance of damaging the skirting or paint work. Personally I dont like floating floors but I would have the skirtings finished and when the floor is laid use the small beading to cover the gap between floor and skirting. I guess this way if you ever have to pull up a section at least you wont have to disturb the skirtings again. Others may disagree Arfur Re: Skirting decisions - Can't decide! 3Sep 05, 2012 2:58 pm ^ I agree. And you can use the small flat beading and not the usual "triangle" shaped one which is used most of the time. If you are still not convinced, ... we had them tacked but they didn't charge extra for that "service"! It just means that they won't use as many nails (but they still use the same nails and the same nail gun!!). And don't let them glue them on! Taking them off will damage some of the boards and you may need to cut replacement ones later on. Re. painting or not - it's actually easier for you if they don't paint them. Else, you'll have to sand them back and repaint. Sanding&preparation will not be a pleasant job (unless you only have a couple of small rooms to do). The cost of attaching them back will be ... well ... unpleasantly surprising. My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Skirting decisions - Can't decide! 4Sep 05, 2012 10:17 pm Thanks Uncle Arfur. I most definitely will damage the skirting, paint, and even the walls in trying to remove the skirting; I have watched some youtube videos but I'm not confident that I can do it all over my house.
OK, I will try and look for beading (this weekend). I hope I find the right type...How is this beading attached (not glued to skirting?) >>Edit: I did some research...and found that beading is NOT attached to the skirting but is nailed to the floating floor. Uncle Arfur If you try to remove it you stand the chance of damaging the skirting or paint work. Personally I dont like floating floors but I would have the skirtings finished and when the floor is laid use the small beading to cover the gap between floor and skirting. I guess this way if you ever have to pull up a section at least you wont have to disturb the skirtings again. Others may disagree Re: Skirting decisions - Can't decide! 5Sep 05, 2012 10:24 pm Thanks Lex So many new ideas to consider...I know next to nothing about this, but I have to start somewhere! So tacking in can be done with a nail gun, fewer spots...Then it should save them time, not cost them more money to do. Sanding and preparation...wow, that sounds like a LOT of work. While I am happy to do a lot of work if I knew how to do it, I don't so I know I should go for the easiest option and it will still be a big task for me. I hope I find the "small" beading that you are talking about. Do you have a link to a photo of it so I know what you mean? Lex ^ I agree. And you can use the small flat beading and not the usual "triangle" shaped one which is used most of the time. If you are still not convinced, ... we had them tacked but they didn't charge extra for that "service"! It just means that they won't use as many nails (but they still use the same nails and the same nail gun!!). And don't let them glue them on! Taking them off will damage some of the boards and you may need to cut replacement ones later on. Re. painting or not - it's actually easier for you if they don't paint them. Else, you'll have to sand them back and repaint. Sanding&preparation will not be a pleasant job (unless you only have a couple of small rooms to do). The cost of attaching them back will be ... well ... unpleasantly surprising. Re: Skirting decisions - Can't decide! 6Sep 05, 2012 10:47 pm Re: beading attached to the floating floor, some online googling (about flat beading) suggests that using a nail gun (with tiny nails) doesn't prevent expansion of the floor (bamboo floating). I wonder if this is true? I think the skirting will be installed right on the concrete slab, because it was originally intended for a tiled floor. I'm not sure what height the skirting will be at, but I don't think I can slide the floating floor underneath. Re: Skirting decisions - Can't decide! 7Sep 06, 2012 7:51 am I thought they usually install the skirting directly on the slab (ours was). That small beading is literally flat, with one side (the front one) slightly rounded like half-bullnose (sort of). I also suggest to run a very fine sanding paper over all your beading while it's still raw and before they install it (because it's highly likely that they won't!) because it will be smoother and catch less hair later on and less fibres when you clean the floors with cloth. Our beading around kitchen is about 4-5mm high and about 15-20mm wide. Looks really, really good. Special timber flooring supply shops have them, but I think Bnngs too. The ones at Bgs might be a tiny bit different in size and available length (longer). Both look fantastic and you can't notice a difference unless you knew where you bought them. Our beading was also glued to the floor in some places (as well as nailed), but I didn't like that!! They also used tiny nails to nail them into the floor by hand (scary when you see a hammer around a finished job !! ). Oh, I don't think anything can prevent expansion of the boards, but yours being a floating floor, plus made of bamboo, there are slim chances it will ever move! I wouldn't worry about that at all. And yes, sanding & preparation and painting took literally forever and took a lot of room in the garage too. Then looking for ways to attach them nicely or find a good trader ... ... In short, all the lengthy exercise was hardly worth it (but I admit the skirts sitting on the floor do look good - but then again, you get used to almost anything!!). My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Skirting decisions - Can't decide! 8Sep 06, 2012 9:41 am I see, I'm sure ours wil be directly on the slab too then. We'll be off to Bgs to see if they have the flat beading ;D I am doing the floor myself under guidance of my friend who has experience in DIY installation of a hardwood floor. So the beading (including sanding, painting) will be my job too ( ) I hope I can manage it. I read a website that recommended painting the beading to match the skirting (i.e. white) rather than the floor is that what you did? When I went to a flooring shop to ask about the bamboo, we were told to buy metal senior ends to use around the kitchen and other metal connectors (forgot what they were called, to use at each door). If I use beading, will I not need those? That's a good idea, to use sanding paper and smoothen the surface of the beading before installation. Do you know if your installer painted the beading before installation or afterwards? My townhouse is ready soon (1-2 months) and I have so much to do before I can actually move in - due to opting to not have tiles all over the house...but I think it will be worth the work-- I hope! Thanks again for your reply, Lex! Lex I thought they usually install the skirting directly on the slab (ours was). That small beading is literally flat, with one side (the front one) slightly rounded like half-bullnose (sort of). I also suggest to run a very fine sanding paper over all your beading while it's still raw and before they install it (because it's highly likely that they won't!) because it will be smoother and catch less hair later on and less fibres when you clean the floors with cloth. Our beading around kitchen is about 4-5mm high and about 15-20mm wide. Looks really, really good. Special timber flooring supply shops have them, but I think Bnngs too. The ones at Bgs might be a tiny bit different in size and available length (longer). Both look fantastic and you can't notice a difference unless you knew where you bought them. Our beading was also glued to the floor in some places (as well as nailed), but I didn't like that!! They also used tiny nails to nail them into the floor by hand (scary when you see a hammer around a finished job !! ). Oh, I don't think anything can prevent expansion of the boards, but yours being a floating floor, plus made of bamboo, there are slim chances it will ever move! I wouldn't worry about that at all. And yes, sanding & preparation and painting took literally forever and took a lot of room in the garage too. Then looking for ways to attach them nicely or find a good trader ... ... In short, all the lengthy exercise was hardly worth it (but I admit the skirts sitting on the floor do look good - but then again, you get used to almost anything!!). Re: Skirting decisions - Can't decide! 9Sep 06, 2012 11:04 am Our builder charged the same for tacking them on. At my old house, I took the skirtings off but damaged my gyprock in some places and they did not look nearly as good when put back on even after repainting. The other option is to put on scotias, but I would go with beading as well. scotias look a bit naff. Building tip No. 3: A raft slab will not get you down a river. A waffle pod slab does not go with maple syrup. My building thread https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=53000 Re: Skirting decisions - Can't decide! 10Sep 06, 2012 5:06 pm Thanks Barker! Now I know that some builders charge, others don't. Looks like beading on top of skirting is the way to go ;D You've given me more confidence that I am heading the right way. barker Our builder charged the same for tacking them on. At my old house, I took the skirtings off but damaged my gyprock in some places and they did not look nearly as good when put back on even after repainting. The other option is to put on scotias, but I would go with beading as well. scotias look a bit naff. Re: Skirting decisions - Can't decide! 11Sep 06, 2012 10:19 pm Hi nobl, This is the kind of beading that we have around kitchen: http://www.greatflooringdirect.com/flat-beading-2.php ... or here: http://theflooringforum.com/showthread.php?5056-Flat-beading-neat-finish Sorry, but not sure what are the "metal senior ends to use around the kitchen and other metal connectors", maybe the metal trims used typically when one type of floor meets another (eg. tiles meet timber etc)?? I wouldn't use them around the kitchen, but they are almost a must for any transitions, eg. for different type or height of flooring (or both). Our beading was lacquered with the same floor finish as the actual floor, it was not painted. I also thought of painting it white (like skirts), but good that I didn't! The installer lacquered them separately, ie. before installing them (but he didn't sand them!! how lazy, saving of 2 full minutes!!!). My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Skirting decisions - Can't decide! 12Sep 07, 2012 2:32 pm Thank you Lex! Yes, the flooring company told me the metal used between two types of floors is called senior ends.. I shouldn't use these around the kitchen, it was my DH's idea... I also wish I didn't need any divider at each door...but the flooring company said I need expansion gaps (I hope I got the term right) every few meters...so at each door would be ideal. Did you do that for your floor? Personally I prefer to have a floor that seamlessly connects into all the rooms. I had totally decided on flat beading but my DH doesn't like 10mm of skirting plus another 15mm of beading all around our small house because of the appearance...and did I tell you that the house is smaller than 80m2 with 3 bdrms? So, space is tight and precious... We can't really install skirting, the skirting provided by the builder is probably the wrong thickness (so will not cover the gaps) and it might cost a lot to get an installer...I'm worried: Re: Skirting decisions - Can't decide! 13Sep 07, 2012 3:51 pm The beading is approx 15mm but you only need to leave a gap of 10mm for expansion. So a standard skirting board will be fine as it 10mm (plus a tiny bit more with the paint on. So you would not do beading and then put skirting on top. The beading is only if you do not want to get remove and reinstall the skirts. If you do go for the builder removing the skirtings and then the flooring co. putting them back on, ask for them not to be painted as you will have to repaint them to cover the new nail holes. Another option would be not to get a timber laminate floating floor. We had it in our old house and while it looked nice, a little bit of water that got knocked onto the floor and not noticed for about 10 minutes caused big bubbling issues in the wood. Plus it dented and chipped really easily (admittedly from DW dropping the iron) and our chair legs scratched them. Have you looked at vinyl plank? only needs a 1-2mm gap at the edge so don't need beading or skirts removal, and a lot easier to maintain. Building tip No. 3: A raft slab will not get you down a river. A waffle pod slab does not go with maple syrup. My building thread https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=53000 Re: Skirting decisions - Can't decide! 14Sep 07, 2012 9:23 pm No, we didn't have expansion gaps withing the floor, only around the perimeter of each room (which gets hidden by skirting). I think it may be an overkill considering what product you're using, it is more of a concern for full timber flooring, not for engineered one. BTW, if the builder uses 10mm wide skirting (I think it may actually be 12mm??), there is a much bigger chance it will get (badly?) damaged if you then remove it before installing the floor. We have 18mm skirting, and still had a little bit of damage / broken boards. 12mm is more fragile. In that case, I would seriously consider adding the beading (let the builder fully complete the skirts), OR just asking the builder not to do skirtings at all (can they just supply them cheaply?? ... but again, this can be an exy option with all the additional work etc.). I don't think you'll be using up much of floor space, and flat beading would not look bulky or space-demanding. You can't place furniture right against the walls or skirts alone anyway. (I always have my furniture at least 4-5cm off the walls. Just a habit.) It's the easiest (possibly cheapest too) option. And you'll probably get used to the beading quite quickly. I'm not trying to convince you (duh!??!) but just giving you the other point of view, having gone through that. Plus, sooooo many people have beading. And at least you are aware that you don't have to have the scotia, that's the one I'd swallow pretty hard!! But the flat ones are nice IMO. My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Skirting decisions - Can't decide! 15Sep 07, 2012 9:52 pm Hello! Lex, I wish I'd known about that beading when we'd had our bamboo flooring done, I still haven't finished re-installing our kitchen kickboards, and we moved in 2.5 years ago! nobl. . . we have bamboo floors. Our builder tacked the skirtings on, we had the flooring people remove them and put them back on (after a big fight, and them leaving hammer marks in most of the walls), then I had to put the final coat of gloss paint on afterwards (after filling the holes with wood putty, sanding the wood putty and running some gapseal across the top). Our installers cut out the bottom of the door-jambs to fit the bamboo underneath. I saw these trims when searching earlier: Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ I think they'd be quite nice for the kitchen, but it looks like you have to install them before the flooring. (url is http://www.woodflooring.co.nz/products/finishing-trims/) Re: Skirting decisions - Can't decide! 16Sep 08, 2012 10:47 am Oh, that's nice!! That must be the "senior" thingy they suggested ... And now I know we weren't the only ones with the skirting saga. Only, people usually just show the glossy pics and never tell you the dramas they went through. How weird ... BTW, I still havent' filled in the nail holes and put on yet another coat of paint!! We're just enjoying the fact that we finally have the skirtings "immobilised" My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Skirting decisions - Can't decide! 17Sep 08, 2012 6:33 pm Maybe that's it Lex. I did a search on the senior thing and couldn't find anything. It's a pain in the butt, isn't it. Someone should invent a trim which is easy to use and looks good too. Re: Skirting decisions - Can't decide! 18Sep 08, 2012 10:53 pm Yep. I saw that in Europe they used just the small trim, very similar to scotia. Cheap and much easier to work with than, say, colonial profile skirtings. And noone complains!! I wonder why do we have to use skirtings in the first place! Maybe the plaster/floor gaps could be left too big so no builder wants to take the risk of them showing. Also, the painters would barely paint some 8-10cm to the bottom of the wall, let alone a mere 1 or 2cm. Our painters were slack in some areas, so they left some bits unpainted and even when we raised the height of the skirtings, the bare plaster was still showing!! Geez. Digressed, big time (again!!!) My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Skirting decisions - Can't decide! 19Sep 08, 2012 10:59 pm Yes...sometimes I think about how much easier it would be to put vinyl...but then I start to worry about toxic gases....especially for pets...I seriously considered vinyl--it's good in many ways, water resistance, no expansion...hardy...but like most things in life, there is no perfect solution or else everyone would have gone for that... We are getting a bamboo click-on type floor (well, at least at the moment that is the plan--but the skirting issue is getting difficult!) We thought of laminate too, some of them appear to be much harder than bamboo...we thought of solid wood but we couldn't afford it...we also can't really afford bamboo, but because we are installing ourselves with our friend who kindly offered to help get us going, we decided on it. It's the glue-less type so it is supposedly the easiest type among the floating flooring. But now...DH has told the builder to leave off the skirting He suggests that we should live with no skirting barker The beading is approx 15mm but you only need to leave a gap of 10mm for expansion. So a standard skirting board will be fine as it 10mm (plus a tiny bit more with the paint on. So you would not do beading and then put skirting on top. The beading is only if you do not want to get remove and reinstall the skirts. If you do go for the builder removing the skirtings and then the flooring co. putting them back on, ask for them not to be painted as you will have to repaint them to cover the new nail holes. Another option would be not to get a timber laminate floating floor. We had it in our old house and while it looked nice, a little bit of water that got knocked onto the floor and not noticed for about 10 minutes caused big bubbling issues in the wood. Plus it dented and chipped really easily (admittedly from DW dropping the iron) and our chair legs scratched them. Have you looked at vinyl plank? only needs a 1-2mm gap at the edge so don't need beading or skirts removal, and a lot easier to maintain. Re: Skirting decisions - Can't decide! 20Sep 08, 2012 11:08 pm Hmm...what you say makes sense...I wonder why I was told to do this for each door, and even in the middle of my corridor!!! My corridor is narrow and short, my house is tiny...and I will put expansion gaps at each wall, wouldn't that be sufficient? The bamboo I am considering is solid 14mm not engineered, but I thought that was the standard type? The builder can give us raw skirting (free)...but I wonder how long I will have to live in a house with gaps everywhere...and I am notorious for dropping things like frozen peas, which roll far from the kitchen...plus my kitchen, dining, lounge are pretty much the same area. I'm totally fine with scotia or beading...personally....but now that DH has told the builder not to install at all...i am so scared!!! I feel like I've just signed up for a huge project....on top of the one I was already worried about (bamboo installation). I am getting kicked out of my current place in less than 2 months too so it is adding to the worry...! You are right, furniture cannot be placed right at the wall so really, no loss in floor area at all. Thanks again for your insights Lex...much appreciated. I thought this would be a popular question but I haven't been able to find any similar posts. Perhaps I'm wording my searches wrong? When you have car insurance and the… 0 6604 Joe Apologies for the delay in getting back to you. If you haven't sorted this already you need to caulk this gap. Not sure where you are but if you are in Sydney I can… 5 4335 7 2996 |