Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Jun 07, 2012 10:52 pm So, we've got a blocked sewer. Three days later there's a small trench, I've got an invoice for over $2k, the sewer's still blocked and I'm told it'll be another $6k to complete the job. My problem is I've only authorised two pieces of work here, about $500 at the plumber's hourly rate. After the initial attempt to clear the blockage using "the machine" (2 hours), I was told it'd probably cost $2,000 to $3,000 to dig up the sewer and repair it, but we wouldn't know for sure until the problem had been unearthed. I agree to the plumber coming back to spend a couple of hours (his estimate) to do that ... he'll then call me to let me know how much it would be to fix the problem. He calls back the next day to tell me that about 8m of sewer needs to be replaced, it's about four foot deep at it's deepest point, it'll cost $8,000 - $9,000 to fix. Fortunately there was a seat nearby! If it's going to cost $8k to fix, it's going to cost $8k to fix, but when one has an idea of $2k - $3k in one's head ... But here's the bit I'm not happy with. I say that, as it's going to be so expensive, I'll need to get some other quotes. At this point the guy's demeanour changes ... "we're already already about $2,500 into the job" (like he's invested $2,500 of his own money ... no, it's my money, I've only authorised about $500, and I've got every right to seek a comparative quote or two). I ask for an itemised list of what's been done to date, which I now have. It starts off OK, there's a small call-out fee I wasn't aware of (no big deal), and if the work was limited to the initial attempt with "the machine" and a couple of hours (say four, to be generous) of investigative digging it would be ~$500 and I'd be happy to pay it. Note I've never given them carte-blanche ... it's not one of those cases where the bill was simply more than what was expected ... I authorised around $500 worth of work and have been invoiced for over four times as much! So, any advice as to how I should proceed? Re: Advice sought re plumber's invoice 2Jun 08, 2012 8:40 am Hi, That's sounds like a rip off. Are there any trees in the way? Is there easy access for a machine? Are you in Melbourne? Do you have a sewer plan? If you can get one PM me and we could quote. Re: Advice sought re plumber's invoice 3Jun 08, 2012 9:58 am icf_ext we've got a blocked sewer. Three days later there's a small trench, I've got an invoice for over $2k, the sewer's still blocked and I'm told it'll be another $6k to complete the job. My problem is I've only authorised two pieces of work here, about $500 at the plumber's hourly rate. After the initial attempt to clear the blockage using "the machine" (2 hours), I was told it'd probably cost $2,000 to $3,000 to dig up the sewer and repair it, but we wouldn't know for sure until the problem had been unearthed. Im no legal expert but it seems you authorised two stages of work, I assume the initial $500 for drain cleaning and $2--$3K for digging and repair of the drain, and I think you could be liable for it although you expected the drain repaired for this figure. Alarm bells should have started ringing when on top of the $2--$3K he said he wouldn't know until he dug it up, which suggested it could sky rocket to what it has. His price seems outrageously high and I think all you can do is contact the Office of Fair Trading and give them his itemised list and ask what to do next and ask if he is over-charging. All of this wont help you if you are stuck with a blocked drain for days. Arfur Re: Advice sought re plumber's invoice 4Jun 08, 2012 3:49 pm Uncle Arfur Im no legal expert but it seems you authorised two stages of work, I assume the initial $500 for drain cleaning and $2--$3K for digging and repair of the drain, and I think you could be liable for it although you expected the drain repaired for this figure. Alarm bells should have started ringing when on top of the $2--$3K he said he wouldn't know until he dug it up, which suggested it could sky rocket to what it has. His price seems outrageously high and I think all you can do is contact the Office of Fair Trading and give them his itemised list and ask what to do next and ask if he is over-charging. All of this wont help you if you are stuck with a blocked drain for days. Thanks for the reply Uncle, one point of clarification though - I never authorised $2-$3k for "digging and repairing". The two pieces I authorised were: - drain cleaning (which turned out to be less than $200) - a couple of hours of digging, at $88/hr, to allow the plumber to provide a more accurate estimate as to the repair cost. Alarm bells did go off when he said "$2-$3k" ... that's why I authorised the couple of hours of digging rather than giving him the go-ahead to proceed. A little more context ... I've had to spend about $60k on my house in the last two years. I've paid, without question, invoices for underpinning, brickwork, plaster & paint, electrical and carpentry. In each case there's been an element of "we won't know the cost until we're part of the way through the work" and I've managed the risk in the same way, only authorising relatively small amounts of work until an accurate estimate can be determined. The bricklayer's estimate (after the initial exploratory work) was the only one that was lower than the final figure, by about 20%, but I was happy that the extra was justified and happily paid the invoice. Re: Advice sought re plumber's invoice 5Jun 08, 2012 3:50 pm Abby Hi, That's sounds like a rip off. Are there any trees in the way? Is there easy access for a machine? Are you in Melbourne? Do you have a sewer plan? If you can get one PM me and we could quote. Thanks Abby, I'll PM you over the weekend. Re: Advice sought re plumber's invoice 6Jun 08, 2012 4:06 pm Your relationship with the plumber has already broken down. End it officially and just pay him for work you authorised. If you are in Victoria you can go to Consumer Affairs for advice and you can also go to Plumbing Industry Board and ask for their advice. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Advice sought re plumber's invoice 8Jun 08, 2012 8:02 pm rojak1 I tend to ask for quotation/invoice on paper prior anything to be carried out. Good advice rojak1 ... although it can be a bit hard when it's pretty obvious that work needs to be carried out to determine the extent of the problem. By extrapolation, I should have asked for a quote to conduct the work to determine the extent of the problem ... but how could they quote on that? They didn't know how much of the sewer they'd have to dig up to even estimate the work. I thought it was pretty safe to give them the go-ahead to put a couple of hours effort in (on a time-and-materials basis), and then go from there. The problem is that they put 15.5 hours (not counting the undisputed initial attempt with the sewer machine). That 15.5 hours got me a trench no more than 4m long at an average depth of around 80cm. Sure, I should have got something in writing stating the exact number of hours, but this all done over the phone, and remember that two houses are without plumbing until it gets sorted, so time was a factor. Re: Advice sought re plumber's invoice 9Jun 08, 2012 9:46 pm I wouldn't pay. I have been on the receiving end of "misunderstandings" with tradies and just explained quite clearly why I wasn't going to pay and didn't. I offer to pay what I think is reasonable (always explaining why) immediately in full and final settlement of the bill, otherwise they have the option of taking me to small claims court etc. and they can prove their claim for the full amount. In one case I was given a quote over the phone ex GST and I refused to pay the GST component ($350) when the final invoice came through. In the other I was told the charge is $X per hour (full stop) and later in the conversation told they would send two people. The invoice came in at $X per hour... per person... plus GST. Its a lesson to be learnt for them to be careful to be clearer about their pricing and in your case what they have been given the authorisation to do. Its a hard lessom for them to learn but at the end of the day if you did not agree to the charge you shouldn't have to pay for it. Tender /1/12 Contract 14/6/12 Planning 12/10/12 Site 23/10/12 Piers 27/11/12 Slab 12/12/12 Frame 15/12/12 Trusses 17/1/13 Roof 24/1/13 Bricks 13/2/13 Plaster 1/3/13 Re: Advice sought re plumber's invoice 10Jun 09, 2012 12:19 pm Quote: The two pieces I authorised were: - drain cleaning (which turned out to be less than $200) - a couple of hours of digging, at $88/hr, to allow the plumber to provide a more accurate estimate as to the repair cost. Do you have any of this in writing? If so you are half way there. If not it becomes a he-said, I-said argument which is hard to prove should it come to a Court hearing It seems you have gone into your renovating with eyes wide open and its unfortunate the plumber is trying it on. I still think the Office of Fair Trading will be the best for advice on how to proceed Good luck Arfur Re: Advice sought re plumber's invoice 11Jun 12, 2012 10:06 am oh well, even a quotation needs your signature as a proof that you actually accepted all the works to be carried out at xxx money, consumer affair will be on your side if the quotation $ amount is significantly difference from the final invoice $ amount, not saying you should ditch the tradie and not paying them after all they did carry out some extra works, but without your consent, maybe try using this as a haggle point? Re: Advice sought re plumber's invoice 12Jun 12, 2012 4:51 pm icf_ext They didn't know how much of the sewer they'd have to dig up to even estimate the work. It just looks like another case of fishing in muddy waters. This is a very basic thing. A true expert in his job would know how to estimate. My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Advice sought re plumber's invoice 13Jun 19, 2012 6:11 pm Spot on Lex, I will second that. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Hi, I am approaching end of the build. My final invoice will be given to me soon to pay. Some context before I ask my question. 1. My builder wont do the landscaping or… 0 3865 Ask yourself if the insurance company will be aware of the Reno. 4 7370 Versaloc is a mortarless besser block system that still needs a properly engineered footing. If you just do a 400x200 footing it will fail in time. At 17m long you need it… 1 17768 |