Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Apr 08, 2012 3:42 pm Hi, I'm new to this forum because I need some advice on a tricky situation. There's a house I'm interested in buying and while my spidey senses say 'run like the wind' from this house, because it seems like it could be a money pit, I thought I'd ask some experts on what their thoughts are. The house has a concrete basement, two storeys and an (unfinished) attic. Ok so this house is 'basically' finished but is yet to get an occupancy certificate; that is the buyer's responsibility. It's been sitting 'empty' since possibly 2008. The alarm bells are ringing because there are water leaks in the roof and subsequently mould patches are in two of the rooms but the biggest concern here is that because from what I gather, this has been leaking for four years and so there may also be damage to the framework. The council says the roof is also different to the planning approval. So I guess worst case is if there is problems with the pitch or anything, particularly given the water leaks, the buyer may have to tear the roof off? Plus there are also questions over whether waterproofing was actually done to the wet areas of the house because tiles have already fallen off two of the showers (council documents I have received allege that someone was living in it illegally for a period so they would have used the showers). There is also moisture coming through one of the basement's concrete walls; the paint is peeling off in areas. There are questions in the reports I have obtained over whether the proper tanking, or waterproofing, was done to the basement. There is also no sump pump installed in the basement. The condition report says the joists in the subfloor, which from what I can make out is the floor between the basement and the first floor, so technically the roof of the basement and floor of the first storey, are "poorly supported". I am yet to confirm exactly how they are poorly supported. The building inspector noticed "some" floor joists to the ground structure used were second hand materials. One of the balconies is already deteriorating and the inspection report says the other two has "no fall" which from what I understand means the water could possibly run back into the house and would not pass council inspection. It was also found that at least two balconies were not waterproofed. The inspector found the floor bounces in two bedrooms and the staircase landing. Glass bricks used to create part of an external wall are also in question by the council over their "structural requirements", along with glass used in the roof and the council also wants an engineers report on concrete columns connecting the lower basement floor to the upper ground level footings. There is plenty more improvements needed on this house but I wanted some advice on all of the potential structural problems I have pointed out with this house. Here's a few of my questions: What is the rough cost to fit a sump pump into a basement? If there is no waterproofing in the basement, what would be needed to remedy this and how much would it roughly cost? If water is leaking between the walls and some of the frame needs replacing the length of two storeys, how much would it cost? My building knowledge as you can is very limited so my next question might sound silly, but if there is water getting between the walls, what would the width of the water damage be? Would the water drip down in a perfectly vertical line, meaning only say a metre wide of the framework needs to be replaced or would that whole wall in the house need the framework replaced? Would joists need to be replaced and how much would it cost? How much would it cost to fix the balconies? What are the requirements to get an attic to a finished stage or could you just put a man hole cover on it and declassify it as a room? How much to waterproof wet areas? The basement was the first stage, so would the council have had to sign off on that stage and make sure everything was constructed properly before the go-ahead was given for the next stage (building the house on top of it)? Is the house as structurally unsound as I believe after reading the inspection report or am I being overly cautious? Or is this a tear down the existing house job? If anyone could offer some general information after reading my very long post or answer some of my questions it would be incredibly appreciated. I know I haven't given area sizes on balconies or anything which might make answering some questions hard, but even some rough guesstimates would be fantastic. Thank you very much! Advice needed on an almost finished but run down house 2Apr 08, 2012 11:02 pm If it was simple for the current owner/builder to rectify all that is wrong with this build, they would have done it already most likely. Back away slowly, no sudden moves and don't make eye contact, when you are a safe distance away, turn and run as far and as fast as you can away from this disaster. HD Re: Advice needed on an almost finished but run down house 3Apr 09, 2012 7:27 am Hi I agree with Ray153 but it's all about the value and the experience(are you buying this at land value?) If you can fix this up, make some money and get a ton of experience it could be good but unless you are fearless give it a miss. It's too early to give any advice but you should enquire whether there have been foundation and frame inspections. The other biggest problem you have is lack of knowledge and this means you have to buy it so make sure you budget for it if you take this further Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Advice needed on an almost finished but run down house 4Apr 09, 2012 9:08 am Are you serious?? It has taken you longer to compose your post than it would have taken any other potential buyer to dismiss this property as screaming out DISASTER. You would be getting in way out of your depth (of experience). Sitting empty for 4 years says it all. I suggest the land is worth more than what is on it, which sounds like demolition value only. Arfur Re: Advice needed on an almost finished but run down house 5Apr 09, 2012 12:44 pm Uncle Arfur Are you serious?? It has taken you longer to compose your post than it would have taken any other potential buyer to dismiss this property as screaming out DISASTER. You would be getting in way out of your depth (of experience). Sitting empty for 4 years says it all. I suggest the land is worth more than what is on it, which sounds like demolition value only. I have recently inspected a grand old home that was vacant for 50 years and it looked worse than it was. I am sure many potential buyers that have dismissed it out of hand are now regretting. My client's picked up a gem for a bargain because they just did what you advise not to, they did their homework. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Advice needed on an almost finished but run down house 6Apr 10, 2012 8:54 am I would not even think about this unless your answer to all of the questions below is yes: A) Is the house in a good position (ie. the worst house in a good street/area)? It's not worth your time or money if the finished house is going to be substantially undervalued in comparison to your capital expenditure - as is always the case in real estate it's all about location, location, location. It's certainly not worth it if the house is going to end up being the nicest one in a not-so-good area. B) Are you aware of everything that needs to be done? (ie. no hidden surprises). You are going to need some rather thorough inspections to accurately assess the current condition of the house and work out what needs to be be done. C) Do you have sufficient funding to cover the worst case scenario where wide scale structural works are required? If you don't then in the end you'll just be passing on an "incomplete" house to the next hopeful punter when your funds run out and you can't finish the project. You'll also probably take a heavy loss on your capital investment as well - nobody will pay you what you've spent on a house that needs work and incomplete houses bring out the wolves and they will surely sniff blood once they see that you haven't been able to finish what you have started and need to get out of it to avoid further losses. D) Does the cost/benefit analysis as least reach a break even point in the worst case scenario? ie. will the house be worth what you paid for it initially if you do end up approaching that worst case scenario? If you plan on living in the house then a break-even point is fine, however if it is an investment then you'll need to turn a profit of course. E) Can you actually do it? From your initial post it is already clear that you are hesitant about it - can you actually get the job done once you start or is it going to be too much to handle in the long run? You need to get as much info as you can on the condition of the house and the potential rectification costs in that worst case scenario and then sit down and have a good think about whether it is something that you A) can take on and B) want to take on. Obtaining general ballpark estimates on here is fine initially, but you'll want to establish a battle plan for the reno and then start sourcing actual quotes for each aspect of the rectification works before jumping in with both feet. Some people apparently have nothing better to do than comment on other people's sigs. Re: Advice needed on an almost finished but run down house 7Apr 10, 2012 5:14 pm Uncle Arfur Are you serious?? Um, yep? As someone who has already said I am NOT a builder, I wanted as many opinions as possible and I want to thank you, Uncle Arfur, and everyone else who has had their input because I value it. I am a fair bit of a pessimist when it comes to the big things in life (i.e. things won't work out) and I wanted to see from a different point of view if I was being my usual pessimistic self or given that I have no building knowledge, if I might have been way off track and things might be fairly easily rectified with this house (ok, there's the optimist in me). The only other house I have been involved in getting a fairly major renovation for mostly involved cosmetic stuff, although there were a few iffy things with some bigger stuff. I may not be a builder but I am a bit of a risk taker because this property was overseas and in the end, it all worked out well. However with this 'problem' house I just can't get a reading, which is why I posted in this forum. Part of me thinks I might pass up the chance of a lifetime to end up with my dream home, as Building-Expert ponited out (thank you for your input too), the other part knows I could be walking into a minefield. I would in no way be doing a lot of the work, as CMHamilton asked, I would be project managing which I am fairly confident I could take on. I would be living in the house upon completion, it's not a flip. If it was totally up to scratch, this house would be worth $650,000. It's on a huge block for the burbs. The council is so far unable to determine whether the frame and foundations have been inspected (I'm calling them back tomorrow). I'm not a huge fan of the street; the surrounding houses aren't crash hot except for one on the corner of the street, but that's a concession I'm willing to make. It would be definitely one of the two best houses in the street (if it was finished of course) but the neighbourhood as a whole is fine. I would not be selling it anytime soon, this would be my home for the next 20 years at least. Some ball park figures on what needs to be spent would be great as a starting point to then investigate further. The other option is as Uncle Arfur suggested, the house be torn down which is another option to be considered. Thank you again for all of your reponses, it's much appreciated. Re: Advice needed on an almost finished but run down house 8Apr 10, 2012 7:01 pm For the record I did actually mean are you willing to take on managing such a large project - you'd have to be superman to actually do all of the work yourself. In some ways managing a large project like this can be more stressful than getting someone else to do everything for you... (I apologise for not being clear in that regard). Looks like you are on top of it in terms of trying to realistically establish the feasibility of the job - a big block in the 'burbs in a nice area (even if it's not the best street at the moment) is definitely worth looking at and if you're going to be living in it long term then taking the need for a profit out of the frame makes it a bit easier all round (still try to avoid over-capitilising). If the bones of the house are intact and the house layout itself is workable into a modern design then you will end up with a very nice piece of real estate - the game would be trying to keep the rectification costs down as low as you can. I wish you luck in your endeavour - if i does actually get off the ground then it's be great i you could keep us posted (we love pics too) so we can see how it is progressing. Some people apparently have nothing better to do than comment on other people's sigs. Advice needed on an almost finished but run down house 9Apr 13, 2012 7:48 am How are you going to fund this project? If you are planning on borrowing the money, be aware the bank will probably lend approx 80% of the value of the house as it is now. A friend had this problem and had to get family to lend money for their reno as the bank undervalued the house and wouldn't lend on the potential end value after the Renovation. Maybe worthwhile checking with your bank or broker to see how much you could borrow. We built the Wisdom Majestic 40 - moved in! Our blog - http://ourwisdommajestic40.blogspot.com.au/ Our H1 thread - viewtopic.php?t=54156 Re: Advice needed on an almost finished but run down house 10Jun 24, 2012 2:25 pm Hi everyone, my apologies for taking so long to get back to you all. I keep meaning to write an update and after this house came up again in coversation last night, I thought I'd better write something. I didn't want to be one of those people who came in for advice and then never gave an update. Anyway, in short, the house went for WAY too much for the condition of its structural integrity ($540k!). Glad I did the due diligence. Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread, which in part along with talking to the engineer who did the condition report of the place helped make the decision to go to the auction with a certain price in mind on what I was willing to pay. On a different note, I was amazed at the amount of people at the auction who were serious bidders and had no idea about how bad a condition it was in. Thanks again! Re: Advice needed on an almost finished but run down house 11Jun 24, 2012 7:26 pm I am all for doing the homework and you did well and picked up tons of experience,better luck next time. Yes I agree many people go to auctions without homework and thinking less than buying shoes, then they get into trouble. I know because I have dealt with many problems discovered after purchase. Keep looking an doing homework and you may get lucky to spot a gem that others overlook Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog 7 6255 I had a similar issue with my fridge not too long ago. It wasn't the same model, but the symptoms were pretty much the same: the compressor would start and then stop… 3 7553 Hi HomeOne, I'm in the midst of landscaping a cat run down the side of my house, and the recent rains have me wondering if I need to install some sort of drainage. I've… 0 12291 |