Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Feb 21, 2008 3:47 pm Hi
There are so many available i was just wondering how to go about selecting one that's appropriate for us. Some offer some free time to discuss pricing structures etc. and others start with an upfront fee of up to $600 for a 2hr consultation service. Is it the norm to choose a couple of architects and pay for the consultation fees to determine which firm suits us best? We are wanting plans drawn up for renovations to a post war home - project will be significant - addition of up to 3 bedrooms and a rumpus + more - perhaps to be done in stages. Would an architect be the way to go or would we be better off going with a draftsperson or a project/design builder? We are not after anything cutting edge just plans that would meet the needs of a growing family. Can someone email me some recommendations for Southside Brisbane - a lot of architects i have called are only interested in building not renovations? Thanks. Re: Is an architect best and how to choose one 2Feb 21, 2008 4:00 pm Have you tried Archicentre (http://www.archicentre.com.au)? I've attended one of their seminar nights and they offer quite a few services. They'll refer you to a local architect who will come up with a design plan for you. Re: Is an architect best and how to choose one 3Feb 21, 2008 6:39 pm Hi Sue,
Given the scale of your project, unless you have a full-on period home or have heritage issues, I'd seriously think about bulldozing and building a new house on your block. We went down a similar path - 1948 post war home, no redeeming period features. Just a 3 bedroom 12-ish square salmon brick, steel frame windowed framed unremakable house. We engaged an award winning architect and came up with a plan to gut the interior, put four bedrooms upstairs and make downstairs all living area. Then the plans went to a quantity surveyor to be priced up..........and we were horified with the figure that came back, which was way over the budget that we briefed to the architect. So went went to a few builders to get a tender budget based on the schematic plans that had been produced. Some of them weren't even prepared to quote, others quoted high enough to discourage us. We got some realism from builders that were specialist renovators, and that realism was that there are too many unknowns in a large scale reno. Those unknowns translated into exclusions and/or allowances on the quote, not firm prices. Ultimately, we've figured that building a new 35 square place will cost us around 100k less than extending in the way that we originally planned. Plus, the floor plan isn't constrained by your existing place, and you get the builders guarantee and the happiness of everything being shiny-new. No joins of old and new plaster, no patchwork roof, no old vs new floorboards - the list goes on. We found a builder that could adapt one of their existing designs to our plans - and do some value add as well in terms of the layout. Right now we're about a week from frame completion, and whilst building a house is no cakewalk, we're happy we made this decision, and with what we'll end up with. Good luck, which ever way you go. Cheers, Justin. Re: Is an architect best and how to choose one 4Feb 25, 2008 10:17 pm I wish someone talked about this one year ago...
Today went through the exact same thing. Bought a old double brick house with good bones, thought would be cheaper to just extend and not demolishing the whole thing. Wanting to add approx 25~30 sq on top of existing 10 or so with a double storey extension at the back. Got an architect to draw up plans, briefed him about our budget, took 9 months or so but was very happy with the plan. Starting to ask builders to have a look for costing. OH MY GOD!!! The renovator and extension specialists work on roughly 20K per sq, as compared with 10K per sq for new home builders! One of them actually told us to bulldoze and start new. Why is it that architects don't have any idea what they design will cost? Would have saved us months and months of interest payment on vacant home that's not had any work done or anyone living in it. Our dilema is whether to bite the bullet, reduce size of extension and look for cheaper builder, or delay building by coming up with new set of plans, get town planning, building permit, then bulldozing and start new? Appreciate if any one can offer practical advice. Re: Is an architect best and how to choose one 5Feb 26, 2008 7:44 am I'd go new - although it will take time for new drawings etc, it will also take time (and money to the architect) to reduce the plan and find another builder.
You could take current plans to a draftsman and get him to draw working drawings (for a fraction of the cost) for a new house (with any changes to the original part of the house if you like). Hard decision as things happen so slowly - good luck. Paula Re: Is an architect best and how to choose one 6Feb 26, 2008 8:19 am Presuming you are already living in the house, the problem with demolishing and rebuilding is that you have to live somewhere else for around 9 months and pay rent (and mortgage?), another cost to factor in.
Another option of course is to sell and rebuy another larger established house which doesn't need changing?? I agree with previous posters re architects being out of touch; my brother had plans drawn up at cost of around $20,000 for extension/renovation on 30 year old house, to add laundry (current one is outside), main bedroom, ensuite, extend kitchen, new entry. After spending the $20,000 and then getting quotes from builders, he found all quotes were consistently $150,000 more than architects' estimates. Given house is probably worth around $400,000, spending $250 - $300K didn't seem worth it and whole idea got shelved. $20,000 down the drain!!!! Surely architects should be in touch with real world and have more accurate idea of cost of their projects - if so, brother would have paid initial consult fee and then canned idea at that point, after spending few hundred instead of $20,000. I guess the point that is coming through is that extending/renovating is good (have spent 20 years doing so to my 1950's built house) but there is a point where it becomes non viable - upgrading kitchens, bathrooms, minor extensions: Yes but major remodelling, turning 12 square houses into 30+ square ones: No. Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide to do!! Re: Is an architect best and how to choose one 7Feb 26, 2008 9:01 am Quote: I guess the point that is coming through is that extending/renovating is good (have spent 20 years doing so to my 1950's built house) but there is a point where it becomes non viable - upgrading kitchens, bathrooms, minor extensions: Yes but major remodelling, turning 12 square houses into 30+ square ones: No. True Helyn, however I I think that it really has to be on a hosue by house basis. Personally the only house I would spend big money extending would be a period house, where the value of the house will increase due it's character and more useable space that was not normally available in that style of house. In Tarragindi, I'd assume the house is typical of the area, and you might be better off to re-build. I used to live in Brissy and drove through the area most days for work and depending on exactly where in tarrginidi you are, the house may be semi period style or it may not. Only you can judge that one. But IMO there is nto much point spending as much as new house on an old non character non period hosue as to all concerend it will alwasy look and feel like the house it is. If it was me - I'd knock it down and build a radical (to most) really thermally efficient self heating and cooling house. It will payback big time in future resale value, plus give you real livability and much lower living costs. My thoughts Steve Re: Is an architect best and how to choose one 8Feb 26, 2008 10:32 am Thanks guys for the advice.
Fortunately I don't already live there, so demolishing won't be a problem. But I'm now ** that the architect wasted our time and money for absolutely nothing gained... One consolation is that our architect is a family friend and only charged us $3K up to now. Feel really sorry for Helen's bro, 20K down the drain!!! Yak, do you know of a good eco friendly architect in Melb who would have some sort of idea about cost of building. Re: Is an architect best and how to choose one 9Feb 26, 2008 11:19 am supa007 Thanks guys for the advice. Fortunately I don't already live there, so demolishing won't be a problem. But I'm now ****** that the architect wasted our time and money for absolutely nothing gained... One consolation is that our architect is a family friend and only charged us $3K up to now. Feel really sorry for Helen's bro, 20K down the drain!!! Yak, do you know of a good eco friendly architect in Melb who would have some sort of idea about cost of building. supa you learnt a lot in the process even though it now seems like a waste of time. 20k Helyn ... my goodness surely it didn't cost that for drawings etc. Did he start the build and then cease when he realized how much it would cost?? I agree with the others ... frequently it is cheaper to start again. We found a builder and design we liked, modified it extensively, got an ecoarchitect to look it over and fine tune the spec and window orientation etc and then progressed to build. It has taken us a bit longer than we liked but we now have a great build progressing and more importantly a good relationship with our builder. We considered renovating and building onto our old house but it wasn't feasible given costs. Re: Is an architect best and how to choose one 10Feb 26, 2008 11:40 am I agree with what the others have said.
I have a friend whose an architect and one of the common questions he gets asked is whether people should renovate or build new. He tends to tell them it depends on the character of the home, if its a standard home you are better to build new. This may be wrong but I think its around double the cost to renovate as to build new. I find this quite helpful for pricing; http://www.archicentre.com.au/2008Jancostguide.pdf If you are unsure about how to select an architect and whether renovate or build new, you may want to look at getting a concept design done which will give you an idea of costs. I know archicentre offers this service and I'm sure most architects would. I'm not sure but building designers may also offer this service. Re: Is an architect best and how to choose one 11Feb 26, 2008 2:28 pm Thank you thank you. This is all good reading and find that all your thoughts re. going over budget reflecting my concerns.
Buldozing and rebuilding (as well as selling up and moving) are options for us. Mine is no period home, however we are considering renovating because we have already done quite a bit of work to the current house. I have actually found an architect's website which spells out every step of the way with regards to the level of service he offers (renovating or rebuilding). He starts off with a set fee verbal consultation to advise whether a renovation will be the best way to go or not. From client testimonials he has actually advised selling up as he didn't think either renovating nor rebuiding would make sound investment. Also as part of his design service he claims he is able to outline all consultants' fees and a detailed opinion as to the construction cost of the project before moving on, and at the concept revision/design development stage he would organise an indipendent detailed estimate to ensure the project is financially viable before proceeding (correct me if i'm wrong but I take this to mean the plans are submitted to sub-contractors to ensure that it can be cost effectively built). This including permit drawings is the minimum level of service (no less) that we have to commit to should we choose to progress with the architect's proposal - God only knows how much he would charge up to this stage. Am I being naive to believe that above makes good sense, or do all architects claim the same. I will be going to see another architect this week to compare her pricing structures to this one I'm already looking at. Thanks again, loads of research but hopefully will get us the best decision though more and more we'd probably be better off starting new. Re: Is an architect best and how to choose one 12Feb 26, 2008 2:51 pm Quote: Yak, do you know of a good eco friendly architect in Melb who would have some sort of idea about cost of building. Don't know any in Melbs, but places I'd check with are. Ask Emilis and ask him who he would recommned - he has done projects interstate and he migh be a good option for you. http://www.emilis.sa.on.net IMO he is the one of the best eco architects I have met to date - radical - and non convential to some, but he makes realistic designs that work and well within budget. or try the http://www.ata.org.au - Goto their next meeting and ask the question at the meeting, who theyh woruld recommned - they have a whats new whos new section at the end of each meeting, (great time to talk to people who have been there done that re eco houses.) and try the archicentre in Melbourne. They will give you some names - but my preference would be to try in the order as per above. Emilis, ATA, then the Archicentre. My thoughts Steve Re: Is an architect best and how to choose one 13Feb 26, 2008 5:55 pm supa007 Our dilema is whether to bite the bullet, reduce size of extension and look for cheaper builder, or delay building by coming up with new set of plans, get town planning, building permit, then bulldozing and start new? Appreciate if any one can offer practical advice. Hi Supa, If you knock down and build from scratch you may find that you don't need to go through planning. If you're doing a dual occ or something like that you will, but a "straight swap" would most likely just need a building permit. We're doing a 35sq double storey in place of a 12 square single storey, and only required a permit. Justin. Re: Is an architect best and how to choose one 14Feb 26, 2008 6:18 pm Quote: 20k Helyn ... my goodness surely it didn't cost that for drawings etc. Did he start the build and then cease when he realized how much it would cost?? Well, I admit this is second hand information, didn't see the payment myself, perhaps brother exagerated or rounded up a tad, however my understanding was that this was solely for architect services, it certainly wasn't for any building as idea got canned before anything got started. The point is that surely architects should have some idea of the industry they are working in and be able to give rough idea of expected costs, not give advice from an ivory tower. To say brother was p***ed off, was an understatement!!! Re: Is an architect best and how to choose one 15Feb 26, 2008 6:35 pm I personally would NEVER engage an architect….(Sorry if there are any watching this thread)
I have never come across one that does not waist space and get the specks right. I had to work with one recently on a large reno and extension of an old hotel, nice man, don’t get me wrong I really liked him, but…..I have found builders and Home Plan Designers more switched on to the needs of their clients. And NO, architects don’t know the price of the selections they are choosing for you, just like me, I don’t know the exact price of them either, that’s not our job. We choose your design, not cost it. It’s a real catch 22. For me, I would employ a Home Designer……1/2 the price of an architect. Internal and External Building and Colour Consultant Online - Worldwide http://www.denovoconcepts.com Re: Is an architect best and how to choose one 16Feb 26, 2008 6:52 pm Two quotes I've had from builders about architects :
"Architects like spending other people's money" and "Architects like building monuments to their own egos" Justin. Re: Is an architect best and how to choose one 17Feb 26, 2008 6:53 pm Justin Two quotes I've had from builders about architects : "Architects like spending other people's money" and "Architects like building monuments to their own egos" Justin. Internal and External Building and Colour Consultant Online - Worldwide http://www.denovoconcepts.com Re: Is an architect best and how to choose one 18Feb 26, 2008 7:12 pm Quote: The point is that surely architects should have some idea of the industry they are working in and be able to give rough idea of expected costs, not give advice from an ivory tower. To say brother was p***ed off, was an understatement!!! They do!!!! The achicentre guys have a concept phase now designed to overcome just these issues. Check out their website. My advice to anyone considering an architect - and they are useful at their job - is to ensure you both fully understand how and where they will fit into the project, what you want - how many $$$ you expect to spend - and define up front exactly what the deliverables and the payment schedules - in writing and both signed and agreed to for a set cost. If they can't do that - then find a better architect. I'm in IT and I've seen many a project that has gone off the rails because both the client and sales/ software developer have not done the hard yards to setup these guidelines first. Just like building with physcial timber bricks and mortar, the main issues arise when changes of mind happen, noone says I wasnt this - and each party wastes time talking things over changing it etc etc. Be clear, be concise and be definite on what you want from the start. Then once that's done - you have concept plans - take it to a quantity surveyor who will cost it up for you to the nearest $. Then youcan decide from there. and remeber each area costs more or less to build in. For Instance - my mate was building a big shed on KI - he thought the quote was excessive - I rang a mate of mine who is a Quanity Surveyorand asked him how much to build a shed of this size, he looked up his books, said XYZ + add XX% because it was on KI to cover extra labour and transport costs. They have it all in a book clearly defined to cover most variables and it is updated whenever it changes. Rant over Steve Re: Is an architect best and how to choose one 19Feb 26, 2008 9:28 pm Quote: Quote: The point is that surely architects should have some idea of the industry they are working in and be able to give rough idea of expected costs, not give advice from an ivory tower. To say brother was p***ed off, was an understatement!!! Quote: They do!!!! Well, this one didn't !!!!! But, Ok, can't judge from one bad experience. As you said, perhaps the key is picking the right architect in the first place. Re: Is an architect best and how to choose one 20Feb 26, 2008 9:45 pm Helyn Quote: 20k Helyn ... my goodness surely it didn't cost that for drawings etc. Did he start the build and then cease when he realized how much it would cost?? Well, I admit this is second hand information, didn't see the payment myself, perhaps brother exagerated or rounded up a tad, however my understanding was that this was solely for architect services, it certainly wasn't for any building as idea got canned before anything got started. The point is that surely architects should have some idea of the industry they are working in and be able to give rough idea of expected costs, not give advice from an ivory tower. To say brother was p***ed off, was an understatement!!! I can understand his annoyance . You would think an architect would have some idea of costs. We've had one good and one bad experience with architects. But I agree in general they have their head in the clouds. Fantasy does not always = reality. Your build is relatively simple, I believe your job can be easily done by a good building designer, you really do not need to pay for the architect. Remember, architect's… 3 10953 I've just had a look at the website. The company are just building broker's. There are plenty of similar companies that basically draw your plans (they own them so you… 8 10854 Very common on rendered homes Smaller suppliers get the lower quality raw materials 6 11850 |