Browse Forums General Discussion Re: 3 Year old slab moving, now blamed on Landscaping 61Mar 03, 2012 6:29 pm Found this on WIKI. Advantages of waffle pod slab foundation of home? IT here is only one advantage of waffle pod slab construction - reduced cost. The waffle pod slab is no more than a slab of concrete placed on the ground, with polystyrene blocks in a grid pattern within. This results in a system consisting of a slab with a grid of stiffening and edge beams, giving the (reverse) effect of a 'waffle' if viewed from underneath. If construction is to take place on reactive soil, consideration needs to be given to the future maintenance of the slab. There is some requirement to ensure consistency in the landscaping and general treatment of the areas surrounding the slab. Typically, having concrete on one side, for example a driveway, gardens on another side, perhaps gravel on a third side and a timber deck on the fourth side can result in different soil moisture conditions which in turn can lead to structural movement and failure. Of course it is difficult to regulate the area underneath the slab. Builders often advise that consistent landscaping or even a concrete apron around the house is required to ensure reliable performance of the slab, unfortunately this advice is sometimes given when it is too late. Typically, category 1, 2 and sometimes category 3 cracks appear, and when the builder is advised he engages an engineer (usually the engineer who designed the slap) to give an opinion. Invariably, it seems to be the fault of the owner. The problem is that houses commonly have concrete on one side (the driveway) and gardens or lawn on another side, so the question really is, is it acceptable that the slab and foundation material be so fragile? Usually, stable foundation material will be found at a reasonable depth - perhaps 600mm - 1200mm. Home builders should obtain a quote for the price difference between a waffle pod slab and a conventional slab & beam construction, keeping in mind the cost of rectification in a cracking building and the effect on resale value. Builders should advise their clients accordingly and give them the option. At the moment, clients are not given the option, the display homes they are shown are not cracked, the brochures do not warn of the likelihood of cracking, they are not told of the onerous maintenance requirements, and it is not until it is too late that the issue arises Re: 3 Year old slab moving, now blamed on Landscaping 62Mar 03, 2012 11:55 pm An engineer that I engaged to do some work for me specialises in this sort of stuff, says that the waffle pad specs within AS 2870 have been beefed up in it's 2011 revision. He says this equates to $5k+ in the cost of waffle pod. IMHO, this adds ammo to the fact that waffle pods were (and maybe still are) substandard and inappropriate to use in building. Re: 3 Year old slab moving, now blamed on Landscaping 63Mar 09, 2012 11:34 am Reading all this just makes my head boggle We changed to Waffle pod slabs 2 yrs ago what we have seen they are a much stiffer slab Yes the cost is cheaper (Owners are always looking at getting cheap as possible) and as a builder cost control is alot better If you look at they way they are designed waffle slabs have internal ribs very close together raft slabs have internal ribs spaced apart. The only thing we do is make the waffle slab 100mm but again this is more cost to the owner I think that most people think that as a builder we must be making $70k per home well i can tell you this is far from the truth We could build a home to be bomb proof but tell me would you pay for it It all comes down to cost and while people go around chasing for the best price all the time but they don't what to pay for it I see this all to often All i can say is go for the cheapest and you get what you pay for not saying just because you go for something that cost more will be better but research ask to see some completed homes ask around go with you gut not the wallet. Re: 3 Year old slab moving, now blamed on Landscaping 64Mar 09, 2012 11:38 am The cheapest should still conform to standards and be of a certain quality. We are not talking about building a house in China! This is Australia and i don't think it is too much to ask for a house that doesn't move in 3 years or as soon as we get average rainfall. Re: 3 Year old slab moving, now blamed on Landscaping 65Mar 15, 2012 1:09 pm sorry JimmyL that was not so much pointed at you but other reply's about slabs. in your case sounds like you may need to get an independent engineer around to do a report. Then i would see if you can resolve the issue with your builder if not VECAT is the way to go but make sure you got some reports to back you up Re: 3 Year old slab moving, now blamed on Landscaping 66Mar 17, 2012 11:38 am I have experience with slab heave problems and have prepared VCAT reports for some of my clients but let's go to to the basics. 1 builder has knowingly entered into a contract for the design and construction of a home with a P classification. 2 Builder is responsible for the design and construction adequacy (warranty under Domestic Contracts Building Act 1995 section eight) 3 In my opinion the finished product must withstand normal use in ordinary conditions 4 Therefore the design and construction must include foundation protection as required(this includes all means required to stop water damaging foundation material and if that means a slab around then so be it) Foundation protection is not and cannot be an optional extra Is this like building a car and telling the owner to get their own DIY brake kit? There may be other complicating factors but the above is a starting point. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: 3 Year old slab moving, now blamed on Landscaping 67Jun 20, 2012 11:28 am I have left this for a few months as it was consuming my life and just needed a break. I have noticed that over the last 5-6 months the cracks have not grown and decide to start looking for answers again. I'm probably going to get an independent engineer to inspect my house and see what they have to say. If it is just a matter of paving an area and then fixing the cracks at my own expense then that is what i will do. I hate to give up but some things in life are not worth it. My partner and I are looking at buying 20+ acres in the country and just renting this lemon out. If anyone else in the Point Cook Hoppers Crossing, Tarniet area want to contact me feel free to send me a message. I will be catching up with a resident who is in a similar situation and lives in the same estate (tracked me down through this site). Also if anyone has had a positive outcome please write it up on here for everyone to see. Cheers Re: 3 Year old slab moving, now blamed on Landscaping 68Jul 16, 2014 7:26 pm Ok another update just in case it helps someone out. I ended up getting an engineer in to asses the house and he has come up with a few ideas on the cause but the main one is the design of the slab. Half of the slab rests on piers and the other on natural ground so even seasonal changes in moisture levels will result in differential movement. He states a few other things including getting more tests done but too much to write in here. One major concern was the movement in the ceiling in the Alfresco area. I spoke to the builders about this and nothing was done. Well 3 months ago during some wet weather the whole ceiling collapsed (almost on my tenant). The insurance company sent out their own builder as well as another independent builder. They have decided not to cover the damage as it was caused by a building fault, mainly the plaster used was not external grade and installed in accordance with the manufactures instructions. The builder came around again and said that my landscaping caused the house to move and the ceiling to fall. After all of this i get a random call from the builder stating they have hired a new guy and he would like to see the house. He came around and said certain people have left the company and thing have changed for the better. I have sent through the engineer report and awaiting to hear back. I'm not holding my breathe on this one as they love to give the run around without any result. Hopefully others have some better luck!! Re: 3 Year old slab moving, now blamed on Landscaping 69Jul 16, 2014 8:42 pm From the outside I think they will always look to blame the landscaping. The AS2870 standard is quite specific on the grade of soil around the slab. Technically if you follow this standard to the letter of the law and the grade is incorrect then the builder will fight to prove that as a result of altering the grade the water has not drained freely and has compromised the structural integrity of the slab. If there are garden beds, plants etc close to the house, this will also affect it. Get a copy of the standard and familiarise yourself with it. It will help in discussion with any party. I'm going to be watching this closely so keep us posted. Re: 3 Year old slab moving, now blamed on Landscaping 70Jul 16, 2014 9:13 pm Crazyk From the outside I think they will always look to blame the landscaping. The AS2870 standard is quite specific on the grade of soil around the slab. Technically if you follow this standard to the letter of the law and the grade is incorrect then the builder will fight to prove that as a result of altering the grade the water has not drained freely and has compromised the structural integrity of the slab. If there are garden beds, plants etc close to the house, this will also affect it. Get a copy of the standard and familiarise yourself with it. It will help in discussion with any party. I'm going to be watching this closely so keep us posted. Yes I agree the builder should not leave the site with poor drainage as you say per AS2870 and drainage should be designed by a engineer this is still not been done properly even though the codes have tightened up on the engineer designed drainage interpretation.I think a simple crossection of a agi drain on engineering drawings isn't really drainage design. Re: 3 Year old slab moving, now blamed on Landscaping 71Aug 01, 2014 2:54 pm JimmyL Half of the slab rests on piers and the other on natural ground so even seasonal changes in moisture levels will result in differential movement. I'm far from being an expert, but I don't think this was a good idea. Cost saving exercise to save some time in boring the other holes, removing the excess dirt and pouring some extra concrete. My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: 3 Year old slab moving, now blamed on Landscaping 72Aug 01, 2014 6:59 pm Yes this is on the plan of the slab. I don't have all of the sizes in front of me right now. I still haven't heard anything from the builders since their "goodwill" inspection. Re: 3 Year old slab moving, now blamed on Landscaping 73Aug 04, 2014 2:32 pm JimmyL After all of this i get a random call from the builder stating they have hired a new guy and he would like to see the house. He came around and said certain people have left the company and thing have changed for the better. I have sent through the engineer report and awaiting to hear back This sounds positive though - they could have done what many would do and continue to wash their hands of it. Chase it up and let is know what happens,and what the final cause of the cracking is determined to be. Re: 3 Year old slab moving, now blamed on Landscaping 74Aug 05, 2014 8:33 am qebtel JimmyL After all of this i get a random call from the builder stating they have hired a new guy and he would like to see the house. He came around and said certain people have left the company and thing have changed for the better. I have sent through the engineer report and awaiting to hear back This sounds positive though - they could have done what many would do and continue to wash their hands of it. Chase it up and let is know what happens,and what the final cause of the cracking is determined to be. If I hadn't seen it all before I would share your optimism however to me it looks like stalling and buying time in the hope that owner doesn't last the distance. (and I am an optimist) The problem for the owner is that he has been trying to fix his problem in the hope that builder will do the right fix. It hasn't happened and is unlikely to. Despite engaging his own engineer owner is no closer to getting results. Why? The problem is more than just engineering, it's also about the contract, the law, the warranties, building and engineering design, building methods , regulations, specification, standards, evidence and proof. It's the proper relationship between all this that will get you the right answers. How is an engineer whose education and training is 90% not relevant to housing going to do all this for you? It's like wanting to go from Melbourne to Sydney and catching a bus then finding it will only take you to Benalla, now you got to find another bus to take you the rest of the way Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: 3 Year old slab moving, now blamed on Landscaping 75Aug 05, 2014 12:15 pm Engineers are licienced solution/data providers we deal in non compliance generally when we get called in it's too late. After 3 years I would think JimmyL has gone past talking he just wants the optimal solution and have it fixed tomorrow. Sorry JimmyL I dont live in the east otherwise I would try to assist you. Hiring an independant Engineer/Builder would be a good move should you wish to progress to the courts Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: 3 Year old slab moving, now blamed on Landscaping 76Dec 11, 2014 5:21 pm The builder has been back checking plumbing only to find no problems. They then paid a plasterer and painter to re do a couple of the rooms however did nothing to fix the actual problem or even patch up the massive crack in the bricks out the front. I have emailed them several times but never get a reply and when i ring i'm told they will ring me back. The insurance have still refused to pay for the ceiling collapse in alfresco and the builder still wont admit fault. Now did anyone catch this today? Looks like Metricon have been ordered to demolish and rebuild. Hopefully this is a game changer for others that have been given the run around. http://www.smh.com.au/victoria/metricon-ordered-to-rebuild-fouryearold-cracking-melton-west-home-20141211-1257il.html Quote: Metricon ordered to rebuild four-year-old cracking Melton West home Date December 11, 2014 - 5:51PM Read later Clay Lucas Clay Lucas City Editor, The Age View more articles from Clay Lucas Follow Clay on Twitter Follow Clay on Google+ Email Clay Waffle 'slab heave' thought to be undermining thousands of new homes submit to redditEmail articlePrintReprints & permissions Shelley and Earl Softley in front of their Melton home. Shelley and Earl Softley in front of their Melton home. Photo: Joe Armao It cost them precisely $199,897.01. In return, they were meant to get their dream house. "We were very excited," says Earl Softley. "We were out there every week, taking progress pictures." It feels fantastic that they have acknowledged that we were not going crazy. Shelley Softley The reality, once they moved into their new three-bedroom-plus-rumpus Melton West home, was shocking. Within three months large cracks had opened in plasterboards, cornices were separating from bowing ceilings, and skirting boards were coming off. "Slab heave" is thought to have affected thousands of new homes in Melbourne's outer north-west, where volatile soil movements cause walls to crack, doors and windows to jam, and floors to tilt. Among them was Mr Softley and his wife Shelley's home in Long Tree Drive, which lifted 44 millimetres at one end, 16 millimetres at the other. An engineer's report found the lifting distorted their home's timber frame. In one part of the house near the toilet and laundry, the brickwork cracked so badly eight metres of it needs replacing. Instead of replacing it, the state planning tribunal on Thursday ordered builder Metricon to knock down the home they built for the Softleys, and build a new one. Metricon, which in part tried to blame the shifting slab on two pebble gardens in the house's front yard, will also have to pay the Softleys' rent while their home is rebuilt. Metricon chief executive Mario Biasin says the company is disappointed by the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal's ruling, and is considering a Supreme Court appeal. Ms Softley says Metricon had tried to help them in the early stages of their legal battle. "But they kept trying to shift the blame onto us." For four years, she says, the cracking and shifting had meant doors and windows repeatedly wouldn't shut. "Currently our sliding doors won't close." It is the second time Metricon has been ordered to rebuild a faulty house. In April, Graham Hooper won the cost of replacing his Tarneit house. Metricon in that case also argued problems with the house's slab were due to Mr Hooper's garden landscaping. Metricon appealed that ruling and is awaiting a decision. Lawyers Slater and Gordon acted for the Softleys. Associate Robert Auricchio says the decision is important for others whose new homes have been affected by slab heave. These residents are, he says, "literally watching their homes cracking and falling apart around them". The law firm has been contacted by more than 100 other home owners in conditions similar to the Softleys'. Mr Auricchio says there needs to be a dedicated taskforce to look at slab heave. "And the industry must fund an independent dispute resolution scheme so that difficult and complex and very costly legal proceedings can be avoided." For Shelley Softley, Thursday's ruling mostly came as a relief. "It feels fantastic that they have acknowledged that we were not going crazy." Thousands of homes in city-fringe estates may be similarly affected, in a trend being blamed on "waffle slab" foundations. Waffle slabs "float" on top of compacted ground and are cheaper and quicker to build than traditional footings. But often they sit on top of highly reactive clay soils that can move dramatically. submit to redditEmail articlePrint Re: 3 Year old slab moving, now blamed on Landscaping 77Dec 12, 2014 6:19 pm Sorry your house has problems. I also saw the news and definitely thought it was a game changer. Especially when M said they are considering appeal. An appeal would cost more than rebuilding the poor couples house, so it seemed M were worried about setting a precedant. Re: 3 Year old slab moving, now blamed on Landscaping 78Dec 13, 2014 7:08 am JimmyL Ok another update just in case it helps someone out. I ended up getting an engineer in to asses the house and he has come up with a few ideas on the cause but the main one is the design of the slab. Half of the slab rests on piers and the other on natural ground so even seasonal changes in moisture levels will result in differential movement. He states a few other things including getting more tests done but too much to write in here. One major concern was the movement in the ceiling in the Alfresco area. I spoke to the builders about this and nothing was done. Well 3 months ago during some wet weather the whole ceiling collapsed (almost on my tenant). The insurance company sent out their own builder as well as another independent builder. They have decided not to cover the damage as it was caused by a building fault, mainly the plaster used was not external grade and installed in accordance with the manufactures instructions. The builder came around again and said that my landscaping caused the house to move and the ceiling to fall. After all of this i get a random call from the builder stating they have hired a new guy and he would like to see the house. He came around and said certain people have left the company and thing have changed for the better. I have sent through the engineer report and awaiting to hear back. I'm not holding my breathe on this one as they love to give the run around without any result. Hopefully others have some better luck!! Ceilings collapsing? Could have killed someone. I would lawyer up, if you can. You may get a result even with some correspondence from a solicitor. Not costly. You can then decide whether to proceed further. Re: 3 Year old slab moving, now blamed on Landscaping 80Jan 05, 2015 6:12 pm I rang them twice before xmas and got the usual run around. I will try 1 more time before i contact S&G. I wouldn't normally use a company like them but they have experience in the matter. Your house roof does not show rusting other than some surface rust on the flashings. In my opinion you dont need to replace or paint the roof other than treat surface rust… 1 10205 Hello everyone, I have a question regarding moving a chandelier after it has been mounted. The chandelier in question is quite large, measuring 4 meters… 0 72332 9 24782 |