Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Sep 08, 2011 6:51 pm Hi! We're looking at sime land that is part of a Multiple Occupancy in northern NSW (Tomewin). From what we can gather before flying over to look at it ,it is pretty much our ideal block. I have zero experience in Multiple Occupancy's though. The land we are looking at is Lot 5 of 15, which boaders on 44ha of common property. The lot is 4.5ha and apparently we can clear up to 50%. Some lots are already developed. What other questions do I need to ask? I don't understand much about the Multiple Occupancy - is it something like living in a Strata home? Are their additional restrictions on land use that can be imposed? Is there a good websource out there? Anyone know anything? Today is under construction. Thank you for understanding. Re: Anything we should know about Multiple Occupancy Titles? 2Sep 08, 2011 9:57 pm The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: Anything we should know about Multiple Occupancy Titles? 3Sep 09, 2011 6:37 am Thanks for the link - that was really helpful! The owner has sent us a copy of the Body Corporate agreement, which seems really reasonable (a lot like an apartment strata, actually, and not that many restrictions). Is it harder to secure a mortguage for a MO property? I have been hearing conflicting thinggs on this. Today is under construction. Thank you for understanding. Re: Anything we should know about Multiple Occupancy Titles? 4Sep 09, 2011 10:56 am Yep - anything different from a strata / torrens title will normally ensure lots more difficulty in borrowing. Some lenders will lend a max of 60%, some will not lend at all, some will lend higher but there will be a catch / cost. Check with your lender / broker before proceeding too far. Some things are worth waiting for. Re: Anything we should know about Multiple Occupancy Titles? 5Sep 09, 2011 11:20 pm Bugger! Guess we'll check with the bank. Is this the same for people in 'master planned' communities, which I understand are a simular thing(?) Today is under construction. Thank you for understanding. Re: Anything we should know about Multiple Occupancy Titles? 6Sep 11, 2011 5:56 pm We have a block of land in community title, there are 7 blocks and 1 community block I would prefer that we were not responible for the upkeep of the road, the pumping station, the lighting ect but it is what it is and we wanted the block enough to put up with it. We had absolutly no problems borrowing on our block and all indications are we will have no problems borrowing for a construction loan. Make sure you get a copy of the strata financials, there is no point buying into a communtiy where you are responsible for the financials if you have no money in the account because no one is paying. Also get a copy of the minutes from the last meeting or two so that you can get an idea on what is happening in the community. Make sure you find out what the contrubution will be, for us it is the same as our annual rates, we have no added infastructure in our estate such as community hall or playground so we are essentially paying twice the amount as the rest of the suburb and recieve no extra services. Also if you are in a bushfire prone area, try to find out your BAL. If it is high it could effect who is willing to build on your land and how much extra it will cost to bring your building up to the standards. Our covenants are very relaxed and really only have restrictions on our fences, our community voted to change our fence restriction from needing council and board approval to council approval only. So keep in mind that covenants can change if the board decides to vote for it. Re: Anything we should know about Multiple Occupancy Titles? 7Sep 12, 2011 10:53 pm We've already been knocked back from the bank we have our current loan with - they won't even look at it! The land is apparantly a Company Title and the contract mostly deals with company shares and the like (each shareholder gets land and a directorship). The BAL is liketly to be fairly high although we'll be trying to clear around the house to bring it down. Building costs are likely to be high as we'd have to build on stumps due the slope of the land. Got a copy of the financial and minutes, so I see what you mean, Lori -everything seems to be fine. The main covenant seems to be on not clearing more than 50% of th block, which doesn't interest us. Lori, in a practical sense do you feel more of a part of your community? Today is under construction. Thank you for understanding. Re: Anything we should know about Multiple Occupancy Titles? 8Sep 13, 2011 9:53 pm More part of a community......Yes. For me it is a bit too familiar - but I believe that has more to do with the small number of houses in the estate. I wouldnt bank on clearing the trees to bring down your BAL I believe its more to do with slope and blah blah blah - finding out what the current owners around you are or talking to the rural fire brigade who deal with it all the time will give you a clearer idea. Our land is most definatly not a company with directorships - I can see how that would make it difficult. Perhaps you can speak to a broker. Also is it likely you might need to sell anytime soon? because if you are having trouble getting a loan than the likelyhood is that buyers will have the same issues. We have had our land for 2 years and I believe there is more downsides than there are upsides to community title, but if the land is worth it than for us it wouldnt be a deal breaker. Re: Anything we should know about Multiple Occupancy Titles? 9Sep 14, 2011 9:07 pm This is the block we want to keep, so resale price isn't a big issue. The block is on a massive slope - there is enough flat land to build a house on, but it's uh....all downhill from there. That's not great for BAL, as far as I understand. I don't know too much about bAL. Do some builders not build on blocks with a high BAL or is it just more expensive? Today is under construction. Thank you for understanding. Re: Anything we should know about Multiple Occupancy Titles? 10Sep 14, 2011 9:59 pm In my experience it has been both. It does add to the cost the higher the level - but that goes without saying. However some builders will charge more than others for the same thing. Our neighbours are in fire zone and their builder only added an extra 8k, but I have heard of fire zone adding 20k. I have had one high volume builder flat our refuse to build on our land because of bushfire attack level. But this builder also seemed intimidated by anything other than a flat square block. Re: Anything we should know about Multiple Occupancy Titles? 11Sep 18, 2011 11:25 am Ta Lori! Had to change from ANZ to Westpac (ANZ flat out don't touch Company Title) but they seem fine with it. Looked at some topographical maps (we won't actually get to see the block for two more weeks) and the steepness is a little daunting. Previous owner has some nice ideas about asian style terraces but I am not liking the cost of that. Today is under construction. Thank you for understanding. Re: Anything we should know about Multiple Occupancy Titles? 12Feb 28, 2012 10:48 pm Hi ashilleong, how did you go? Just saw this thread, and though it is probably too late but thought i would put in my 2cents. We owned an acreage property on group title in a 7 property body corporate, subdivision of large properties makes this a fairly standard arrangement for a Brisbane acreage. My advice to anybody considering any community title or multiple occupancy is tread very carefully! The main reason for this is very simple. We elect state and federal governments on the parties individual ability to govern and make difficult decisions, those elected are scrutinised and (often) thrown out of office if they fail. A body corporate has no such control, the prerequisite for each equal stakeholder is simply that they could afford the block of land.. they cannot be dismissed regardless of their ability to make decisions which will affect a group. So in our experience in a 7 property body corporate: One owner lived interstate and rented their property out Another owner rented their property and was never seen. One owner was rarely seen, lived elsewhere and regularly failed to pay BC fees! One was perpetually trying to sell their property. Which left ourselves and two others as the only owner occupiers with a real interest in the maintenance of the subdivision. This is the problem we encountered (not that you will necessarily), not all BC members have the same level of commitment, and some have an inability to grasp the gravity of situations, and this can reflect in the decisions made (or NOT made) at BC meetings. Some will be purely motivated to obstruct to keep costs of investment properties down, others may obstruct because they simply cannot afford to repair infrastructure. In the end we found the minimal BC exposure we had for road and related easement maintenance to be an absolute nightmare. Existing Body Corporate black and white rulings were also found to be totally without substance, some would quote them as law, while others would completely ignore them - and the only way to actually enforce them is by the BC collective taking legal action against the individual (who is a board member!)...which cost more than the BC can afford! The same applies to property owners not making contributions, one BC member simply believed that was acceptable as we would eventually get the overdue payments when they sold! BC is really an arrangement geared toward unit dwellers, it is often (usually) outsourced to a separate company to ensure impartiality and that all regulatory requirements are met - and there are quite a few! Minutes need to be delivered to all stakeholders within a timeframe, meetings and elections need to be regular, voting needs to be properly controlled, and fees need to be paid in a timely manner - these agencies also work like debt collectors, and due to the (usual) concentration of stakeholders in units there is plent of monetary clout to pursue owners that do not pay or break BC rules. This does not usually translate well to acreage multiple occupancy or BC, and neither do the regulatory requirements, locally run BCs are often oblivious to the laws - or they are ignored - again, as this is locally controlled the concept of compying with BC law is irrelevant as no stakeholder would take their own BC to court for not complying with the BC laws! They would effectively be penalising themselves AND alienating themselves from there neighbours! Unless the person was a millionaire - in which case why are they living in a group title? Our neighbouring BC had similar issues with a group of owners split into factions due to some personality clashes, it was primary school level behaviour where one group would vote against whatever the other put forward regardless of merit! I agree with Lori in as far as reading previous meetings minutes gives a really good indication of the functionality of a BC, however in smaller collectives one or two sales often changes the dynamic, so it is always a case of keeping the fingers crossed that 'good' neighbours remain long term. Here is a scenario to think about, say there are 10 properties in a BC serviced by a common road through an easement, and you are the lucky owner of property number 10. A nice one to own as there would be no through traffic past your property. So one day there is a huge flood, and the road between property #9 and your property is devastated, totally washed out. What do you do? Does insurance cover it? Well maybe, though probably not as the BC went for basic liability insurance and not full flood insurance the road being washed away by an act of god sure doesn't fall under that! So were you aware of the level of insurance? and should you sue you BC for failing to provide compete coverage? more importantly how do you motivate the collective to dip into their individual bank accounts to repair the road when it is only affecting you? I find this is the real difference between group title and a freehold block, if the road outside our current property is damaged we ring the council, a team will be there within 24 hours, if its a BC...well good luck! These are the sort of situations you need to ponder. Like most thing its a case of being aware of the potential problems, then deciding if you are willing to live with the risk (or consider it minimal). To be quite honest my advice to anyone who has an option of a freehold or BC controlled property is simple, avoid multiple occupancy or community title like the plague! If this is all you can afford and it ticks all the boxes then go for it! its better than not having any level of ownership, and our experiences may just have been 'bad luck' Re: Anything we should know about Multiple Occupancy Titles? 13Mar 10, 2012 5:39 pm Wow, thank you so much for sharing your experiences! We didn't end up buying the block because the owner wasn't upfront with us about quite a few things and seemed to not believe in council regulations etc (and would not let us meet the neighbors as well as a rather, uhem, interesting text message after we left). As much as we liked the block, we could just see ourselves getting into huge trouble with this guy so it was back to the drawing board with us. We're in a position where we don't have to go MO, it was just that this particular block seemed too good to be true (and, yeah, you know how the saying goes). I appreciate you posting, however, as there isn't a lot of information available for this sort of thing and every bit helps. Today is under construction. Thank you for understanding. Re: Anything we should know about Multiple Occupancy Titles? 14Mar 10, 2012 9:39 pm You are very wise to not proceed if you had ANY doubts! Anyway, if you do decide to pursue other non freehold properties I should add that there are also potential issues with services that should be taken into account - ie where are the electricity lines, who's poles are they sitting on, who is responsibility if they come down.. and the same applies to phone lines, which in our previous property were attached to a tree, which came down in a storm! Easement use is a thorny issue too, some BCs have specific clauses like 'egress and access for property owners only', but obviously other parties will use them, such as friends and family. So what is your position when a dirt bike club starts regularly using your easement? Most of the BC 'laws' are merely guidelines that fall outside the jurisdiction of general policing. Police are simply not interested if somebody is speeding or driving/riding wrecklessly on an easement, its a civil case on private property, which in effect leaves you with no recourse! If, for example, you encounter somebody stoned/drunk, driving with no lights, unable to turn a dirt buggy around in an area where a truck can U turn... its totally your problem. You cannot even (legally) detain somebody on your own private property who is an obvious risk to their own and other peoples lives, doing so exposes you to legal action. If the same happens on a council road the police will be on the case quicktime. Some of the processes followed by developers during subdivision of properties are bind boggling, and potentially expose land owners to litigation if there are any environmental repercussions. Things like bulldozing through waterways, building substandard bridges and culverts - its something you (more often than not) will not have to worry about on a freehold. I hope i have given you a little food for thought, I hate to see other people falling into the same traps we did. I'm sure MO CAN work, its just fraught with risks, mainly because you are at the mercy of other landowners. just get it quoted by your window supplier. The frame opening is the same so it makes no difference in design stage. The savings on glass means more framing and labour.… 1 11611 Want hotwater setup that allows the Main bathroom and Ensuite both have strong supply of hotwater when both are running at the same time. 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