Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Jul 29, 2011 2:13 pm HI folks
** I have edited my original post - for reasons I won't go into right now** We currently have a claim lodged with BACV (Consumer Affairs and Building Commission) regarding a dispute with our house that we purchased off an owner builder in 2009. When we discovered this issue and the extent of the damage which we previously weren't aware of, we felt it was pretty serious - and urgent - so we lodged the claim immediately (after getting the obligatory intial refusal from the OB to address the situation). The matter is now being dealt with via BACV and an inspector is booked to look at the matter next week. Thing is...... since lodging this claim, and having time to stop and think more, there are numerous other issues that we would like to be looked at while the inspector is out. Initially we were told the inspector would only look at the items we listed in our original claim, however we have since been advised that we can indeed list all the other items and they will do their best to ask the inspector to address them when here (all in one inspection). If not, we will have to lodge another separate claim entirely and go through the process all over again, but for all concerned, I thought it might be best to deal with it all wholus bolus, if possible. Initially I had listed the items that were in dispute to seek your advice on whether you thought they were reasonable claims. But I have deleted them and replacing them with the following question instead : Currently the builder knows about the one (actually a few) issues that have been lodged, but he doesn't know about the extra things that we have not yet approached him about nor yet lodged with BACV. Just wondering what approach you would recommend. Should we lump all the items in together in the one claim/inspection (currently 8 items on the list, all essentially surrounding the one major issue) but if I added everything else I can think of (at the moment) it would bring it up to about 15 items. We would have to give due notice to the builder that we are also lodging these items with the BACV - fair enough. But we don't want to 'spook' the builder and make him get so cheesed off that he digs his heels in and refuses to touch anything and forces us to go to VCAT. However, we also don't want to be constantly requesting repair jobs one after the other - and the builder might also prefer to have everything on the table rather than constantly be receiving requests from us regarding more matters. Would you recommend lumping them all together and hitting him with it all in one go (nothing to say more items won't arise down the track). Or, should we just settle this initial matter and then move on to the next list of items so as to break it down a bit? Only problem with the latter is, we also don't want to be dealing with these bl**dy issues continually and just want it all over and done with (but we will if we think it is the best way of handling it). But, like I said, wondering if all at once might lessen our chances of having anything (including the first/major thing) dealt with. Sorry to have to change the post - but best I leave the particulars of the actual issues out of this post for now. Will feel more comfortable revealing details if/when a decision has been made as to the outcome. It might also help clarify some of the confusion surrounding what can/can't be dealt with. HHCIB Re: Help with some items I would like to dispute with builde 2Jul 29, 2011 2:20 pm So you bought an existing house off an owner builder? I though in that case you bought it as it and the only warranty is for structural stuff and things like not square and uneven were under buyer beware type clauses? I'm not sure but I doubt they will address those issues even if they are present. I could be very wrong here but I though the warranty provided was a structural one not all encompassing Re: Help with some items I would like to dispute with builde 3Jul 29, 2011 2:23 pm As an owner builder, he is responsible to ensure the building is structurally sound for 7 years, but not to ensure it is cosmetically desirable to your tastes. Therefore you will have a hard time getting anywhere with all the cosmetic issues you have mentioned. Re: Help with some items I would like to dispute with builde 4Jul 29, 2011 2:33 pm Hi ChrisandKate, Well, to be honest, I'm not sure of the boundaries. But, from what I gather, you can claim for chipped paint (or so consumer affairs informed me). Also, from what I have learnt, there are two types of warranties... there is the warranty that a builder has to buy (like a builders warranty insurance, I think it's called). This covers you (the owner) only if the actual builder goes insolvent, goes missing, or dies. I think (????) this is the insurance that only covers structural defects. A lot of people (myself included before I started on this exercise) thought this insurance covers you if you have any major structural problems down the track - but not to be - like I said, ONLY if the builder dies or goes missing or goes insolvent. Meanwhile (ie, while they are living, or still in business), there is an implied statutory warranty (that is, a warranty that just naturally exists on any domestic building works without anyone having to actually buy it or take out cover) and that seems to cover anything that a builder should do properly to begin with. So the same as if you built a house with a builder, and discovered 2 months later that the second bath is crooked (and maybe only just noticed it because you hardly use that bath, or whatever the reason), you can request to have it rectified. An owner builder carries the same obligations as a builder in these respects. And, with this implied warranty, you have up to 10 years that you can make claims. I know for owners of new houses, they have an inspection 3 months down the track to discuss these kinds of things - you don't get that with an owner builder but you do still have the right to request work to be rectified, or take it further if necessary. And I assume the same with owners of new builds. Even if you discovered something after the initial inspection - you have right to claim it (as to my limited knowledge). But it does seem that the builders may fight you on it and make you take them to court (if it's outside of their initial inspection period or whatever) which does put a lot of people off. We just hope our builder does 'come to the party' and doesn't make us take it to court. He is playing ball so far, but not sure how he will respond to the little extras we are planning on lobbing on him. Of course, you wouldn't claim chipped paint in 10 years time, but you can claim on anything faulty. Crooked cupboards and baths, to me, is a bit faulty. Anyway, just wondering opinions. HHCIB Re: Help with some items I would like to dispute with builde 5Jul 29, 2011 2:40 pm Hi memphis, sorry our posts crossed. I appreciate your input - and you may very well be right. But from what I am gathering, I'm not so sure. For eg, if we find he hasn't put in insulation in the roof adequately, we can 'claim' that. Insulation has nothing to do with the building being structurally sound but it is his responsibility to ensure adequate insulation. Things like that. (I know it's different to grouting colours etc - but am just using that as an example where his responsibility does go beyond 'structurally sound' items only - but where it ends - not sure). And, there is confusion over this '7 year period'. Again, I think 7 years is how long the builders warranty last for, but we have been told time and time again (by authorities) that we have up to 10yrs to claim on any defects (they call them defects, not structural defects - and like I said, examples that consumer affairs gave us was complaining about dripping paint marks and scratches on walls etc). Not sure, still learning. HHCIB Re: Help with some items I would like to dispute with builde 6Jul 29, 2011 3:19 pm Hi Can you get a Building Consultant to go over the property with a fine tooth comb prior to the BACV Inspector looking at it? This way you could ensure anything that is not quite right is looked at (if relevant ) by the BACV Inspector. We are engaging in a Consultant for progress reports and its $300/ hour. Some even do forensic building reports. It may be worthwhile to speak/ engage in one Regards K Re: Help with some items I would like to dispute with builde 7Jul 29, 2011 3:36 pm Hi Kan, We could, I suppose. But I rang one inspector once (as I had already considered getting someone out to go over everything) and he was going to charge minimum of $1300. I didn't even bother to shop around after that. Even at $300 hr (I bet they also charge travel time and report writing) would be minimum $900 - minimum. We simply just don't have it to spare with other priorities. Unfortunately we will have to bungle our way through it ourselves. Thanks for the suggestion though. HHCIB Re: Help with some items I would like to dispute with builde 8Jul 30, 2011 2:46 pm HHCIB. This is what the owner builder insurance will cover. This extract is taken from THIS document. 20. Indemnity for loss (1) The policy must indemnify the purchaser under a contract of sale in respect of loss or damage arising from a breach of any warranty implied into the contract by section 137C of the Building Act 1993. Note: The warranties referred to in clause 20(1) are as follows (a) the vendor warrants that all domestic building work carried out in relation to the construction by or on behalf of the vendor of the home was carried out in a proper and workmanlike manner; and (b) the vendor warrants that all materials used in that domestic building work were good and suitable for the purpose for which they were used and that, unless otherwise stated in the contract, those materials were new; and (c) the vendor warrants that that domestic building work was carried out in accordance with all laws and legal requirements, including, without limiting the generality of this warranty, the Building Act 1993 and the regulations made under that Act. Obviously chipped paint isn't going to be covered. I think you need to be careful that you dont just see your circumstances as an opportunity to have the OB come back and fix up things you've realised you dont like. The indemnity they need to offer really applies to serious issues where the building hasn't been built to standards (i.e. waterproofing, structural issues etc). Even a room not being square or cupboards not being perfect isn't necessarilly a problem if it still falls within the tolerences of the building codes. Some of your issues sound like definate issues that the builder would need to resolve other issues sound like a case of caveat emptor. All the best, just remember that you are more likely to get the big issues dealt with if you are fair minded in the whole process. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Help with some items I would like to dispute with builde 9Jul 30, 2011 3:56 pm Thanks Chippy.... I really am wanting to be fair and not nit-picky. But... like I may have said in my post, I also really don't want to be paying lost of $$$ to rectify things that the OB should have done correctly in the first place if it is in fact his obligation to fix it. (esp the big/expensive things... not worried about things we can do cheaply over time ourselves - as much) I am about to PM you. HHCIB Re: Help with some items I would like to dispute with builde 10Aug 01, 2011 2:30 pm Just to clarify and to sort out some of the confusion out there (as well as my own confusion) as to what you can/cannot 'claim' via BACV (Building Advice and Conciliation Victoria - which is part of Consumer Affairs). Essentially you are entitled to claim ANY matter that you feel is unsatisfactory that relates to the renovation/extension. It doesn't have to be structural - it can be cosmetic. It doesn't mean that they will get fixed or will get deemed to be 'unsatisfactory' by the inspector and the building ordered to fix it. But, you can claim the sort of items I am concerned about - and, yes, can claim unsatisfactory paint jobs etc. So.... hopefully that might help others out there who think that maybe after the initial inspection they cannot make further claims, or for people dealing with owner builders, you have up to 10 years to make claims. (NOt sure if new builders make you sign something that waives your rights to make claims after the first inspection... but I was also told once before that legally, they cannot make you sign away your rights to this 'insurance' and that again, you have up to 10yrs to claim). So... now to compile my list and work out what we will/won't bother with. HHCIB yes it does, you've just not understood it. theres a difference. 4 5322 Hi VK, I am now retired however I have stood beside over 300 owner builders in the past 18 years that have successfully built their own homes. First of all a building… 10 22670 The best advice is for you to get a competent building consultant to guide you through your build 7 4677 |