Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Apr 11, 2011 3:53 pm I am hoping someone can share their insight about where we stand with a retaining wall, or the lack thereof, please. We live in an established area and are nearing the end of an extension/renovation taking place over the last 10 months approx. We approached our neighbour on the lower side almost 18 months ago about the fact we wished to replace the old Colorbond fence with a paling one and also that our land had been cut into many years ago (50-60 yrs) and never retained. We are in an area with predominantly clay which is probably the reason it was never done. At the moment, along the side boundary, the fence is currently retaining our land and is physically stopping the soil from falling down onto their property. We want to do some landscaping, ripping out some plants, etc and this will mean our land will fall away if it is not retained. In order to replace the fence, a retaining wall is a must. We will have a treated pine sleeper wall 0.4m high at the back portion of our property where we have filled and they need to retain at a height of 0.6m where our land has been cut into. We had a quote way back then that was quite pricey so we've got another which is much cheaper and it itemises the split for the retaining wall + the cost of the fencing. Because their home is lower than ours, the fence height can only be 4' in part otherwise the fence will block their light and even come to their eaves in one place. Is there a building regulation in terns of fencing or could we run the same height fence along the boundary even though it would be as high as their eaves and block our all their light? So, in a nutshell can we expect them to pay for a retaining wall when effectively, the Colorbond fence is doing that job right now and is generally structurally sound? I approached them again on the weekend and was told they had no interest in putting in a retaining wall or fence, or rather, paying for it. The neighbours live in China for most of the year and their and late 20s/early 30s children live there year round. In the event they were to dig their heels in and refuse to pay any costs, would we be in our rights to erect the retaining wall and fence at a height to suit us and giving little regard for what is "neighbourly" and block out their light (south side of the house) and have them looking out at a paling fence? This is what we are leaning to if they refuses to pay anything. Any advice would be appreciated. Re: Retaining wall after the fact & fencing height regulatio 2Apr 11, 2011 6:20 pm I'm not sure what state or territory your in, so this may not apply. In qld you need a relaxation from your neighbour to build a structure on the boundary over 2 meters high above natrual ground level. Now a retaining wall with a fence on top is considered "one structure", so adding 600mm of ret wall plus 1.8 meters of paling fence you end up with a total of 2.4 meters. Best check wit your local council, and check out the regs. Re: Retaining wall after the fact & fencing height regulatio 3Apr 11, 2011 6:32 pm Thanks, evo, I am in NSW. A phone call to the council and I've found they have no guidelines for retaining walls and that we have to work it out with the neighbour. Failing that, we'll have to go to some type of court/tribunal. I think I'll just give them the quote and a fencing contract/form and go from there. It would be a great help if there was a law/act about retaining walls however the Fencing Act does not allow for Retaining Walls just yet however it is in the pipeline apparently. It would be great to hear if anyone else has had a similar scenario and how they got around it without having to pay for it themselves. Retaining wall after the fact & fencing height regulation/re 4Apr 11, 2011 8:15 pm If the existing fence is doing the job adequately you cannot force them to replace it at shared cost. Retaining walls are usually the responsibility of whomever changed the landscape. Ie if your land was the one cut / filled then you are responsible for 100% of the costs. Some things are worth waiting for. Re: Retaining wall after the fact & fencing height regulatio 5Apr 11, 2011 8:24 pm Retaining walls are usually the responsibility of whomever changed the landscape. Ie if your land was the one cut / filled then you are responsible for 100% of the costs. That's my point - their land was cut in order to build their house (before they owned it). In fact, there was once a tennis court there according to our neighbour on our high side. Due to their land being cut, our land needs retaining. Their house is lower than ours however as we follow the boundary toward the back, it levels ourt more since it was never cut back that far, only where the house is sited. Due to our extension/building work, we have filled near the back side boundary slightly so we'll pay to retain that section. We just want them to pay to retain where they cut their land. I hope that makes sense. Re: Retaining wall after the fact & fencing height regulatio 6Apr 12, 2011 3:36 pm In NSW the fencing act says(in layman`s terms) it basically comes down to whoever`s land needs to be retained is the one who has to pay for the wall and the wall stays on your side of the boundry but is usually right up against it,the fence on top of the wall if needed is a 50/50 split. Re: Retaining wall after the fact & fencing height regulatio 7Apr 12, 2011 4:32 pm I appreciate your input. The Fencing Act has nothing to do with Retaining Walls though however will do soon, apparently. I did find this info and although it is an SA website and law, it talks about Common Law and makes sense: http://www.lawhandbook.sa.gov.au/ch30s04.php I plucked this from it: Under the common law liability arises for nuisance if a person excavates near a boundary causing the neighbour's land to subside, or if fill collapses onto the neighbour's land, provided this is foreseeable. Liability can be avoided by taking reasonable precautions. This will often involve building a retaining wall, but in some cases a graduated slope with stable batter may be sufficient. If one neighbour fills and the other excavates, both may be obliged to take appropriate precautions and share the cost of retaining work in proportion to the extent to which they each altered the natural lie of the land. Failure to take reasonable precautions may result in liability if the soil collapses and causes damage, even many years later. Subsequent owners (successors in title) take on the responsibility for retaining soil that a previous owner has built up or undermined. This means they are responsible for the repair or replacement of the retaining wall even though they did not do the alterations or build the retaining wall. The previous owners can also be responsible. We have 24m of 0.4m of wall to construct to retain our land due to US changing to level of the land (it has built up over the years). Our neighbour has 18m of land to retain because it has been cut away. I cannot see how WE have to pay for this fact. That would mean that in years to come when may sell - the house is not well maintained - that someone would just come and bull dose, cut the land further and then ask us to retain OUR land? I don't think I will be paying for them changing the fall of the land. Re: Retaining wall after the fact & fencing height regulatio 8Apr 12, 2011 5:59 pm But is there any danger at present? From what you have said their land was cut many many years ago and the existing fence is doing the job. So what need is there for them to change what is so far working? Some things are worth waiting for. Re: Retaining wall after the fact & fencing height regulatio 9Apr 12, 2011 6:35 pm You may have missed this part of my initial post: At the moment, along the side boundary, the fence is currently retaining our land and is physically stopping the soil from falling down onto their property. We want to do some landscaping, ripping out some plants, etc and this will mean our land will fall away if it is not retained. In order to replace the fence, a retaining wall is a must From what I recall, the previous owners here never did any gardening other than general maintenance. In the 11 years we have been here, we've had to remove trees, shrubs, etc, and this has disturbed/loosened the soil and made it fall against the fence and because the fence was put in down low instead of following the height of the land it is now acting as a retaining wall because there was never one there. It may be best if I post some pics tomorrow so people can see what I am referring to. Anyway, I have typed up a letter and will hand it over with a Fencing Notice and a copy of the quote and see how we go. With all the expense of extending and renovating, the last thing we need is to have to pay for something we should not have to. If they refuse, I'll have to get copies of the DA for when the home was built to see if a wall was required/suggested but never installed. Re: Retaining wall after the fact & fencing height regulatio 10Apr 12, 2011 6:36 pm I also should add, as far as Council is concerned, a wall less than 1m that retains land is deemed "Landscaping" so a DA is not required. We have to work this all out with the neighbours. "( Re: Retaining wall after the fact & fencing height regulatio 11Apr 12, 2011 9:15 pm Here are some links that may answer your question. http://housingcode.planning.nsw.gov.au/ ... gline.aspx http://housingcode.planning.nsw.gov.au/ ... walls.aspx As stated in fencing regs, no more than 1.8m above natural ground, since you have filled and retained 600mm already, adding a 1.8 m fence gives you a total height of 2.4 above natural ground level. Re: Retaining wall after the fact & fencing height regulatio 12Apr 12, 2011 10:55 pm Thank you, Evo. That certainly helps with heights. We have only filled some 200-300mm at the most and are only planning a 5ft tall fence. We'd rather plant for privacy as opposed to constructing a 6 ft fence which would be too high with a wall. I've passed on the letter to the neighbours so now I guess it will be a waiting game. Re: Retaining wall after the fact & fencing height regulatio 13Apr 13, 2011 11:19 am OK, these are the best pics I could get showing the drop from our side to the neighbour. I hope they help to explain things a little better. They do show their house being lower than what would be the natural lay of the land and coincidentally, where the end of the original part of the home (brick) ends, so too does the original cut which is highlighted by the stepping down of the fence. Can see where our land has fallen against the fence since to fence was situated at the bottom of the cut rather than being retained and placed on top. Re: Retaining wall after the fact & fencing height regulatio 14Apr 13, 2011 11:20 am I should add we have excavated in preparation for the retaining wall so the soil on our side is higher than it was and will be filled back against the wall. Re: Retaining wall after the fact & fencing height regulatio 15Apr 13, 2011 12:42 pm A tin fence is never going to be a sufficient retaining wall. Yours looks like it's gonna go over anyway! If nothing else, the bottom of the fencing sheets are going to rot and rust away after a few years of being packed with soil. Maybe you should get an engineer to back your case? You do need a retaining wall. Homestead Homes SA: The Lamont Bayswood Estate; Aldinga Beach Preliminary Signing: April 2010 Floorplans: 13 June 2010 Building Contract: 19 June 2010 Selections: 28 Sept 2010 Scraped; Trenching: 21 Jan 2011 Slab Poured: 28 Jan 2011 Framing: 17 Feb 2011 | Completed 24 Feb 2011 Roof & Gutters: 02 Mar 2011 Bricks: 03 Mar 2011 Wire-up: 12 Mar 2011 Re: Retaining wall after the fact & fencing height regulatio 16Apr 13, 2011 12:49 pm From what I understand the common boundary has both a cut by your neighbour and fill on your side. Your right in that the cost of the wall should be split proportionate to the amount of fill the wall is carrying and the amount of cut the wall is carrying. This can be accuratley determined from approved bulding plans of both parties. Having that payment enforced on your neighbours is a whole other kettle of fish. The lawyers are the only ones who win in the end. Of course your other option is to build a wall just inside your boundary to the height of your fill, put a fence on top, that way your only paying for retaining your fill and your neighbour has to look at two fences Re: Retaining wall after the fact & fencing height regulatio 17Apr 13, 2011 2:46 pm Yes, I leaned on the fence yesterday to have a look over the other side and it almost fell against their house. We just have to play the waiting game and see what they come back to us with. And, it would be very tempting to construct the sleeper retaining wall on our side of the boundary with the fence on top (leaving the existing one there) but that would be a nightmare for the fencing guys. Thank you for your help Re: Retaining wall after the fact & fencing height regulatio 18Apr 15, 2011 11:51 am Hope u can work things out I'm in NSW & kind of in the same boat except I'm the one on the lower side. My so called neighbour decided to cut & fill cut 2.5m down & fill about 1.5m Up so the boundary we share his ground level is going to be half up the side of my house let alone when a fence goes up he will be higher than my roof line so can honestly so IM NOT happy. There was no need for him to cut & fill like that & so I've since found out thru other neighbours who aren't happy either that he's done it all WITHOUT council approval, cause u aren't allowed to cut & fill that much & one of them informed council....oh well The prob it causes for me is that boundary is my north facing so when I build I'm not going to be able to build on that side due to loss of light/warmth because of what he's done, prob there is my south side boundary is only 23.68m deep which doesn't give much room to build. Re: Retaining wall after the fact & fencing height regulatio 19Apr 15, 2011 1:31 pm I'm sorry to hear that Cazart. I hope the Council takes him to task over it since a wall 1m or more must have council approval. It has major implications for your build which is extremely unfair. Our wall is only considered landscaping but is necessary if we want to improve the garden on our side. Without it, our land will fall down alongside their house. We've had our land surveyed and know exactly where the boundary is so we're right in that respect. The sad thing is that we simply can't afford to fork out what would be the neighbour's share of the work without extending our mortgage. Re: Retaining wall after the fact & fencing height regulatio 20Apr 15, 2011 2:56 pm 50-60 years ago is a long time.. Are the current owners the ones who cut into your land? If not, it seems a bit unfair to expect them to pay for it. I would look at doing a DIY retaining wall to save money. Metricon Riva 33 - http://herlihy-riva.blogspot.com Site start 15/03/2010 - Handover 23/12/2010 9 months and 8 days (284 calendar days) from site start to handover Thank you again Simeon.. I will call my certifier for that. Have a good day 4 5189 ok thanks - yes was wondering if that should have been listed as Option Three! 2 7742 Thanks for the insights, that makes perfect sense, and yeah, I will be leaning on the experience of the excavator operator entirely. 6 16147 |